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Forum:	Collecting Place Settings
Topic:	The Olive Standard (1850)

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Your Reply: HTML is OFF UBB Code is ON Smilies Legend	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bob Schulhof: [B]Hi, Bob-- When I first started collecting flatware, I would pass up OLIVE variations as being too available and not all that interesting. However, these days I look for OLIVE-style variants I haven't come across. One that fascinates me is NEPTUNE by John Polhamus. After pouring through Turner, I hunted for this pattern for the longest time before coming across the attached, the only examples I've ever seen of it. [IMG]http://www.smpub.com/ubb/images/01/02-0052-neptunea.jpg[/IMG] Also, one might consider Vanderslice's GARGOYLE a variant of the general OLIVE pattern. Cheers--Ria MacCrisken (Trefid) [/B][/QUOTE]
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<TABLE BORDER=0 cellpadding=4 border=0 cellspacing=1 WIDTH="600"><TR bgcolor="#D5E6E1"><TD COLSPAN=2><CENTER>T O P I C     R E V I E W</CENTER></TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#dedfdf"><TD valign=top>Bob Schulhof</TD><TD> <IMG SRC="http://www.myplanet.net/rjsmes/olive1.jpg"> Special Features The Olive pattern was one of the 1850�s trendsetters away from the English standard patterns. It is interesting since it became an American standard and was produced by several manufacturers and silversmiths of the day. It was made in coin, electroplate and Sterling. Most interesting are pieces from a small silversmith with a short career, such as the Haddock Lincoln & Foss below given as 1850-1865. Most have retailers marks with no makers marksDating According to Turner, both Wood & Hughes and William Gale were producing Olive by 1850 and others such as Whiting and Meriden Britannia carried it into the 1870�s. Pieces Available item��.size��Our cost��Notes Teaspoon��5 7/8��$20.00��Bailey Katella & Chapman Dessert Spoon��.7 4�� $35.00�� Dexter & Haskins Dinner Fork�� 7 5/8��$27.00��. Haddock Lincoln & Foss (925) Dessert Fork ��.6 3/8�� $35.00�� Palmer & Batchelder Pastry Fork�� 7 � ��.$35.00�� Haddock Lincoln & FossPhoto: <IMG SRC="http://www.myplanet.net/rjsmes/olivesm.jpg"> For exploded view click below <A HREF="http://www.myplanet.net/rjsmes/olive.jpg" TARGET=_blank>http://www.myplanet.net/rjsmes/olive.jpg</A>Key Pieces The only piece of any special interest is the little fork with the wide tine which I suspect is a pastry. I don�t think it is particularly scarce because I have seen a number of them for sale.Comments The Haddock, Lincoln & Foss pieces are of special interest because Kovel�s gives them a date of 1850-65 and they are listed in Some references as silversmiths. These pieces are of excellent weight and quality and are marked (925)., which makes them quite early for sterling. The quality is similar to what Polhemus made for Tiffany in early sterling such as Louis XIV. [This message has been edited by Bob Schulhof (edited 06-01-2002).]</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#f7f7f7"><TD valign=top>wev</TD><TD>I think that the Olive pattern dates rather earlier than the 1850s. I have a set of tongs by Hyde & Goodrich with an engraved date of 1834 in a slightly simpler version of the pattern. The normal caveat applies to inscriptions, but the maker's mark is an early one and they have a scratch mark '37/2 oz/62 dwt in an old hand, which would seem to indicate that it is accurate in this case. I have seen French spoons in this pattern dating to the same time -- it may be that the design arrived here by way of New Orleans and hence up the river to New England. Beldon shows a fully developed salt spoon by Pangborn & Brimsmaid, dating it c 1833.Belden notes Lincoln & Foss advertising in directories by 1848, just after the dissolution of the earlier pattnership of Lincoln & Reed. (Has anyone seen this pattern marked by the earlier firm?) Both firms are listed as jewelers, watchmakers, and platers, though Albert Lincoln was working as a silversmith alone c 1820-1830 and I have several spoons with his mark. [This message has been edited by wev (edited 04-10-2001).]</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#dedfdf"><TD valign=top>Paul Lemieux</TD><TD>This post made me think of Vanderslice's lovely Water Lily pattern. It appears to be a direct spinoff of Olive, the only difference being the water lily flower & lily pad decoration replacing the olive leaves. <IMG SRC="http://www.smpub.com/ubb/images/01/PL/vw2.jpg"> Water Lily appears to have been designed before 1860, judging by where it is placed relative to other patterns in Silver in the Golden State. But this is all I know of the pattern. In any event, it is a pretty pattern, and I thought this post might be a good place to mention it.Is anybody aware of other patterns that are Olive variations?[This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 04-11-2001).]</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#f7f7f7"><TD valign=top>Bob Schulhof</TD><TD>Olive Variations Two patterns that I picked up when looking for Olive were Louis XIV by Polhamus (left two) and Tuscan by William Gale (right). <IMG SRC="http://www.myplanet.net/rjsmes/olivelike.jpg"> The far left Louis XIV piece is marked �Sterling Tiffany� <IMG SRC="http://www.myplanet.net/rjsmes/tifmk2.jpg"> which would place it sometime after 1850. The second piece is marked �Patent 1847�, also without a makers mark. <IMG SRC="http://www.myplanet.net/rjsmes/tifmk1.jpg"> Turner gives Louis XIV as 1840-1850. A key difference between the two pieces is the weight, the Tiffany piece being far heavier and robust. Tiffany was a special customer.The third Piece, Tuscan, has only a retailers mark and appears to be the version shown in Turner for William Gale and is also dated circa 1850.[This message has been edited by Bob Schulhof (edited 06-01-2002).]</TD></TR><TR bgcolor="#dedfdf"><TD valign=top>Bob Schulhof</TD><TD>Hi, Bob-- When I first started collecting flatware, I would pass up OLIVE variations as being too available and not all that interesting. However, these days I look for OLIVE-style variants I haven't come across. One that fascinates me is NEPTUNE by John Polhamus. After pouring through Turner, I hunted for this pattern for the longest time before coming across the attached, the only examples I've ever seen of it. <IMG SRC="http://www.smpub.com/ubb/images/01/02-0052-neptunea.jpg"> Also, one might consider Vanderslice's GARGOYLE a variant of the general OLIVE pattern. Cheers--Ria MacCrisken (Trefid) </TD></TR></TABLE>

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