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Author Topic:   Sheridan Silver on Copper 4-pc Tea Set
vintage.collectables

Posts: 11
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 07-20-2005 05:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vintage.collectables     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-0547]


THANK YOU to the knowledgeable members of this site. You have provided me with answers to most of the questions that I have on a Sheridan Silver on Copper Tea Set. I have searched and searched for info about this company on the internet with little results until now.

A little about me, my daughter and silver: We have always loved silver in any form. Over the years we have collected items that appeal to us visually with no regard to the hallmarks, etc. If it looked good, just had to have it. My daughter and I are collectible junkies and over the years acquired way too much. Time and space has made it necessary to clean house as several of our elderly family members estates were passed on to us. So we did like a lot do, list some collectibles on eBay. In doing so we found that it was important to research the item thoroughly so as not to misrepresent it. Libraries and the internet were are primary source (unfortunately some retail or antique stores will tell you what you want to hear and not necessarily the truth). Simple enough, as research is my game and knowledge the reward. But still questions!

This particular set of Sheridan is in a pattern, still unknown to us. But markings made us believe that it is really Sheridan. Marked Sheridan Silver on Copper with the three etched marks (I understand they are truly not hallmarks but a makers ID - something I learned from your forum). The ornate feet, spout and handles have a flower and scrolled type of pattern that almost looks gold washed.

Found a few discussions on the same questions I had as well as some that are unanswered. NOW MY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS:

1 The marks on this set are clearly ETCHED and not stamped. Does this mean it may not be Sheridan or does a mark have to be stamped? A thread ended (Silver Salon Forum) with the following question made me wonder about this.

by Stephen posted 06-14-2003 07:25 PM "Normally, these marks are stamped, not engraved. Are you sure they're engraved?".

I have provided our link to the marks on the piece we have. The etched mark is very similar to the image previously posted in that thread but the crown point is a little different on ours?

2 What looks like gold wash on the handles, etc. are only on the leaves and flowers. Would this be a wash or separate process to enhance a piece? I did find some reference to Sheridan pieces that had this wash but no reference at all to this piece or pattern (subject of mercury guilding in the New Members Forum posted by Antiqueperson was interesting but I left the thread confused.) OR could this just be the copper showing through.

3 Is there a way to date this? This was a silver anniversay gift to my Aunt & Uncle who were married in 1938 - which means it was probably new in 1963-64.


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vintage.collectables

Posts: 11
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 07-20-2005 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vintage.collectables     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks like I didn't read enough about how to post photo's. Lesson two learned - the other is make sure you are in the right forum when you are ready to submit or you might loose all your text.

[This message has been edited by vintage.collectables (edited 07-20-2005).]

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salmoned

Posts: 336
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 07-20-2005 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for salmoned     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
1. The mark is not etched (treated with acid), but appears to be a stamped engraving.

2. It is difficult to determine this via the photo. If the copper is showing through, you should be able to tell (copper is rather a different color than gold, i.e., more red or brown). I believe if it looks like gold, it probably is gold.

3. This is probably mid to late 20th century and dating it exactly will not enhance it's value, in my opinion.

[This message has been edited by salmoned (edited 07-20-2005).]

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venus

Posts: 282
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 07-20-2005 07:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You sound just as smitten with silver as I am. that is a really pretty tea set you have. I have a 5 piece sheridan but it does not have the golden glow or say silver over copper... but the marks on it are just like on yours. Then I have a 3 piece Sheridan marked like yours with the golden glow but no mention of copper, just of sp. You are right, it is difficult finding information on this company and I do not know the pattern names or the dates either.

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venus

Posts: 282
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 07-20-2005 07:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could be that the gift giver gave them an antique tea set?

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vintage.collectables

Posts: 11
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 07-20-2005 08:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vintage.collectables     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since I posted this item I have spent hours researching another item, but will leave that for a later topic.

To Salmoned: #1 Thanks for the clarification on etched vs engraved. Really should have known that from my prior research on this and on glass as well. #2 It is so hard to tell about the "gold wash" it is very light. After a gentle cleaning it is still there. Thought it was tarnish at first. #3 The time element seems right to me.

To Venus: Pretty it is!! Have seen a few in my search endeavor but not quite the same. As far as it being an antique given as a gift. It is unlikely, as it is so bright with little wear and my Aunt & Uncle's circle of friends/family probably could not have afforded this type of item in 1963.

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wev
Moderator

Posts: 3840
Registered: Apr 99

posted 07-20-2005 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Such two-tone silverplate items were quite popular in the 1960s and remained so -- I used to sell piles of them as wedding/anniversary gifts when I worked for a big department store in the early 70s. To be blunt, it was, and continues to be, the industry's attempt to put an eye-catching gloss on goods of moderate price and mediocre design.

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venus

Posts: 282
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 07-20-2005 08:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To be sure you are probably right.... however bueaty is in the eye of the beholder and they sure are pretty to me.

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venus

Posts: 282
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 07-20-2005 08:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
vintage..... I found 2 gold looking shreridan sets on the internet. 1 is goldwashed and 1 is gold electroplated. I would post the site for you to go look but am unsure if it is allowed.

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wev
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Registered: Apr 99

posted 07-20-2005 09:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They are not, so please don't.

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vintage.collectables

Posts: 11
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 07-20-2005 09:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vintage.collectables     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Truly do appreciate the responses received to my multiple questions. Questions 2 & 3 have finally been answered. The only open question in my mind is whether a piece that is engraved with a makers mark vs stamped represents a true mark or is this something that could have just been mass produced? Learned a few keywords that were given to me that will help me in the future. Possibly wev might have run across this answer in his days when he was selling wedding/anniversary items.

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wev
Moderator

Posts: 3840
Registered: Apr 99

posted 07-20-2005 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rest assured these pieces were mass produced. There is no "engraved" makers marks used anywhere; they are stamped in with a hardened steel die on a large hydraulic press.

Now, to a different topic: I have re-read your opening statement closely and am compelled to ask if you are inquiring about these pieces for commercial purposes. If you are, the thread will be closed immediately, your membership will be reviewed, and, I would remind you, any information gleaned here is protected by copyright and may not be used in any form for selling or advertising wares.

Silence will be assumed an affirmation.

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vintage.collectables

Posts: 11
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 07-20-2005 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vintage.collectables     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
These questions were asked so that I can be properly informed. This one and a couple that I will inquire about are going to be still a part of a limited collection of pretty silver. Not all items do I have room for but keeping informed on this and certainly some other pieces will help me to understand silver better. Silver on copper I had never seen before this and only once have I seen a gold wash and that was on a Hobe sterling brooch. Before I was a hoarder, now I want to be selective with what I "collect". Often I even take pictures of them to keep in a safe deposit box as I had a break in and lost some special family history items. Every precious item that I keep on my hutch has a picture file and I am very proud to tell the family story that relates to it to those that ask. Although this set is not "valuable" it would be nice to actually give a brief history of the time period and maker as well when it is passed to another family member someday.

Could not end this thread with what could look like an infringement of the rules by keeping silent. I respect this forum as it helped me understand a great deal. Although I do sell collectibles on eBay I do not do it through vintage.collectables at all. I did read your regulations carefully and respect what they say and mean.

Hopefully I will learn more or be able to post an item that will help someone else identify their item.

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wev
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Posts: 3840
Registered: Apr 99

posted 07-20-2005 11:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With that said, we welcome you here. Please understand that there was nothing personal in my question -- we are, given the wide knowledge and expertise exhibited by our members, besieged by requests for information. To those who ask with a true thirst for knowledge, we gladly answer to the best of our ability; to those who would use us for their own commercial gain, we deal short shrift. Which side of that divide a poster stands on is often difficult to ascertain and I have found a direct question the best course.

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vintage.collectables

Posts: 11
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 07-21-2005 12:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vintage.collectables     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
EXACTLY WHAT I FOUND MOST IMPRESSIVE WITH THIS FORUM!! Straight forward and to the point. LOVE IT!!

With that I will try to get together a couple questions on my two remaining mysteries. A Canadian Railroad EPNS dining car personal size service type tea/water pot and Sheffield EPBM Spirit Kettle on stand. Will post each on its own as I have not found much about them, other than the old family stories of where they came from.

To me the Sheridan questions have all been answered. ##

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Ulysses Dietz
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Posts: 1255
Registered: May 99

posted 07-21-2005 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wanted to chime in that it isn't clear if you folks understand that Sheridan is the maker's name, not a style. The company, Sheridan Silver Company, was founded in Taunton, MA, in 1946. SHERATON is a style, and I suspect that the company founders were using a name that evoked an antique style, thus giving romantic connotations to their silver. Sheridan is the kind of popular "bride's silver" that was sold a lot in the post-war years in department stores (Michael C. Fina comes to mind; these sets were given away on Let's Make a Deal and The Price is Right throughout my childhood). The forms of your set are a simplified revival of Victorian forms of the 1880s. I can recall visiting the International Silver factory in Meriden, CT in the 1970s, and seeing whole assembly-lines of un-plated copper bodies with case white-metal feet being run through the electroplating baths. The set was probably purchased from a local department store or jeweler for your family's anniversary in 1963 (same year as my grandparents' fiftieth).

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salmoned

Posts: 336
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 07-21-2005 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for salmoned     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just a note to Wev - Most makers marks are engraved. I realize 'engraved' brings to mind HAND engraved, but it really only refers to a recessed or imprinted mark, without regard to the nature of the tool used (steel die or hand tool). That's why I used the term 'stamped engraving'.

[This message has been edited by salmoned (edited 07-21-2005).]

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wev
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Registered: Apr 99

posted 07-21-2005 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To engrave is to remove metal or whatever with a graver, acid, or the like. It does not mean to impress into the surface, creating a depression, using a die. Engraving is not die stamping and vice versa; to confound and compound the two is to cheapen both as descriptive terms.

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venus

Posts: 282
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 07-21-2005 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dietz... you explained it exactly right. The name did make me think old and English and those markings(silly me, I thought were some type of hallmark.) I knew just enough to know nothing at all. Which is why I am here, to learn.

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salmoned

Posts: 336
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 07-22-2005 05:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for salmoned     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's my dictionary definition - "engrave 1. to chase on a hard surface, as of metal, stone, or the end grain of wood. 2. to print from such a surface. 3. to mark or ornament with incised letters, designs, etc. 4. to impress deeply; infix."

Incising (cutting away material) is only one type of engraving. I see no reason to narrow the meaning of 'engrave' to correspond precisely with 'incise'. Any chasing leaving the surface recessed is engraving, any chasing leaving the surface expressed is embossing.

The definition for 'etching' specifies use of an acid or similar corroding substance.

[This message has been edited by salmoned (edited 07-22-2005).]

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