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 silver collecting - seasonal differences ?
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| Author | Topic: silver collecting - seasonal differences ? |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 12-19-2016 12:12 PM
  
Trying to learn so please bear with me if these questions sound off-the-wall. I have been researching silver sales on [online auction]and it appears that there were many sales in mid-fall (Octoberish) where the price was a fair bit less than for the same thing right now. I understand that each piece has to be looked at individually, but there is a distinct dip in price around that for the items I am interested in. Silver spot pricing was a tad higher back then vs. what it is now, and the dollar was weaker relative to the Euro. Is there a cyclical nature to pricing during the year? Is it better to sell during a certain time and to buy another? Just curious if dealers tend to free up cash to buy other inventory or if there may be another reason. Tks IP: Logged |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 12-19-2016 06:39 PM
I would also be interested to learn if the market for collectible silver fluctuates up and down like other collectibles. I'm a big fan of the antique roadshow and know that many things have dropped in value over the last 4-5 years. Does that happen to the silver market also, and is it effected by the price of spot silver? Is the market down now? or is it up? Tks IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 12-19-2016 11:54 PM
I think the antique silver market was affected by the recent recession just as the whole antique market was. In the last year or so the market seems to be coming back, but I am not a dealer and they would know more than I do. I know that many dealers that used to carry silver as part of their inventory cut back quite a bit as they said sales in silver were just too slow. [This message has been edited by ahwt (edited 12-19-2016).] IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 12-20-2016 12:57 AM
We do not talk about specific valuations on the Forum, but a couple of generic observations are that the big auction website is only useful when you limit your search to items that actually sold, and even then taking those numbers with a few grains of salt since shill bidding is not uncommon on some things. The second observation is about the big television show that gives appraisals - normally those appraisals are far above what something would actually sell for - typically they are "insurance value" appraisals which can be from two to ten times higher than what something would sell for in the market place. The reason is to increase their viewership - the higher the valuation something is given the higher their show's ratings go so there is a strong incentive for the show's producers to press their appraisers to overreach in their values. The appraisers with the biggest valuations get air time to present them while the appraisers who do not have the big appraisals do not get much, if any, air time. IP: Logged |
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taloncrest Posts: 169 |
posted 12-20-2016 08:13 AM
I think what you are seeing is the cyclical nature of that auction site rather than that of silver. At certain times of year, the silver listings are slim, other than those items that I consider overpriced that keep being relisted. I believe Christmas through January are rather slow in good listings, and IIRC, around May is rather slow as well. These observations are based on ten to fifteen years ago when the auction site had lots of silver at reasonable prices, but I'm sure they still hold true. IP: Logged |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 12-20-2016 10:03 AM
Other than the large auction site and other auctions and estate sales, what might be other avenues to look at to find good quality silver pieces at reasonable prices? I seem to be drawn to george II & III pieces, early 19th century american silver and some deco items. It appears that I have good taste since most of the items I like have sold for considerably more than I imagine they would go for. Another question I have concerns items that are monogrammed vs. those that are not. Would it be correct to assume that a collectors preference would be to have items that are not monogrammed? Tks. [This message has been edited by cbc58 (edited 12-20-2016).] IP: Logged |
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 12-20-2016 10:57 AM
As for monograms I prefer them if they are original to the piece. This Tiffany piece is actually better with this monogram in my opinion: That's a work of art in and of itself. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 12-20-2016 03:13 PM
I prefer antique silver with a monogram that is contemporary with the making of the object, but would not refuse to buy it just because the original owner did not have it engraved. The monogram or engraving is a connection back to the original owner and I think adds to its interest. As Asheland points out engravers create their own work of art. Also I cannot imagine this cup (Little treasures) without the engraving. IP: Logged |
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doc Posts: 728 |
posted 12-29-2016 07:44 AM
The monogramming question is an interesting one. I have customers who won't buy a piece with monogramming, and others who only collect pieces with names or initials. And then there are pieces with family crests; I have been told by at least one high end dealer that large English Georgian hollowware (such as tureens) do not sell UNLESS they have crests. IP: Logged |
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 12-29-2016 09:35 AM
I won't turn a piece down if it's not engraved, but I prefer a monogram (if it's original to the piece) And I love crests! The only thing I refuse is a piece with a monogram removal. That is a deal breaker to me. IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 12-29-2016 10:23 AM
The monogram vs no monogram debate is endless. I think that it depends on what the object is - for the very old silver that has contemporaneous monograms I think that it is not much of an issue with many collectors, but monograms added in later years is a detraction. Removed monograms is a very big detraction. On newer silver objects made in the past 125 years or so, my sense is that monograms, including contemporaneous ones, are a significant detraction on all but the rarest of objects or unless they are those of a famous person who originally owned the silver. Removed monograms from such newer silver is a big detraction as well. Contemporaneous crests add value to either the older or newer silver and especially to the very old silver. As to where to buy silver you are already looking in several of the better places, however, since your tastes seem to be running towards the higher end and higher value silver you will likely do better finding a few high quality dealers and developing relationships with them. You will be paying for their service so you should not be expecting "real steals" but they will have the sources to obtain better silver. And such better dealers will provide a degree of assurance that you will be less likely to be offered forgeries. Fake markings added to old lesser value silver are unfortunately a fact of life in collecting silver and you need to be watchful that you are not taken too easily, though with the skills and expertise of today's crooks you will not likely be able to entirely inoculate yourself from such trash. The chances of running across such items on the big auction site and at local small auctions is much higher than buying through reputable dealers and higher end auction houses that have serious silver experts on their staffs. You do pay for that though in the prices. On the other side of the coin, you wind up paying dearly every time to buy forgeries from lesser sources. IP: Logged |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 12-29-2016 11:25 AM
I was actually reading up on forgeries because I have come across one or two items where the hallmarks looked "too good" for the purported age of the piece. Saw an article on someone who was arrested for forgery and suspect there are many questionable items out there. Then there is the question on actual silver content for hallmarked items that are genuine.
IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 12-29-2016 02:08 PM
For high value and rare silver the hallmarks should be used only as a secondary indication as to the maker and the age of an object precisely because forging a little stamp of a letter or two or of a lion or such is relatively easy where forging an entire piece of silver in a specific style is much more difficult. There is no shortage of old silver by obscure or unknown makers that is not of the quality as the big names in the market and for the effort of doing a bit of research as to exactly what the original hallmarks look like and the cost of some computer aided design and manufacturing one can easily make the little steel die stamps to hallmark such old silver with big names that multiply the market value by many times. It is like pretty much any collectable of higher value, rarity, and desirability - the bad guys are out there and they have been for a great many decades, if not centuries. Their skills and knowledge has increased over time so one needs to be wary and do one's research, as well as insist on provenance and meaningful assurances from the seller that it is what it purports to be. IP: Logged |
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