posted 11-20-2004 11:28 PM            

We found this beaker last week in a newly discovered (for us) Antique Shop. The beaker has a gold wash on the inside and has very attractive "design" on the outside that has a shagreen pattern look. Would this be considered a form of engine turning? It appears to me that this engraving would be difficult to do and I am not sure that one should call it an engraving. In any event the effect is a textured look in appearance that is very attractive. It also feels good in the hand.

The marks on the bottom of the beaker are shown below. The two pictures are the same, just rotated 180 degrees as I am not sure both marks were meant to be viewed the same way. Neither of the marks looks like anything in Tardy.

I wonder if this beaker is German in view of the zigzag marks. I have often wondered what the purpose of the zigzag mark is. Where they simply part of that assaying process?

Any information about this cup would be appreciated.

The letters in the mark with the crossed swords are S and F.

posted 11-21-2004 12:30 PM            

The zigzag line, known by the unlikely name of a "diet" in English, is called a "Tremolierstich" in German. (I like the term "proofstrike", which I see occasionally in English translations of German catalogues; much better than the peculiar "diet".) It was produced when an assayer removed a bit of silver with a rowel-like device in order to test the content for purity.

As for the marks, they do not look familiar to me. They are consistent with marks anywhere from the early 17th century to the mid-19th century, as is the style of the beaker, so putting any date on it at all for the moment is impossible. If genuine (many 19th century items have spurious pseudo-marks), almost certainly one mark is the maker's mark and the other the guild/city/assayer's mark. I can't really make them out; could you perhaps post a better, more detailed close-up of the marks?

posted 11-21-2004 03:17 PM            

I think that is the best picture I can come up with now. The initials S F are with what look like crossed swords.

posted 11-22-2004 09:38 PM            

I must make a clarification to my first entry. Actually what happened at the antique shop was my wife handed me the beaker and the little dog pictured below and said "We should buy these". After 41 years of marriage I know that we should.

The little red ware ram has a whistle at one end and we are still looking through books as to what it is.

posted 02-21-2015 10:09 PM            

It has been nasty weather here and I started looking at a couple of items that I brought some years ago. On this beaker I noticed that the upper rim in not at all like those I have from the U.S. The top of the rim is perfectly flat and from the side looks like a ceiling moulding (but not concave or convex) that goes straight to a half round moulding. I do not know how this was made, but it was either fashioned separately and then applied or it was formed by hammering on the partially finished beaker.

Any ideas?

Was this a technique used in the U.S. by silversmith or was this common in Europe?

posted 03-07-2015 05:06 AM            

The zigzag stribe was used in Germany and many other countries. In Denmark the guardein had a set of needles in different lod. They took a testing stone - probier steine - a Black flat stone and scratched the silver against the stone. Then the guardein scratched the needle Next to it. By comparing they could determine the silver content.

Silver is White - the more copper in the silver the more red colour.

The test mark where not supposed to be hidden they should be seen. They showed that the item was tested.

Some below that the zigzag stribe is part of the prof. That is not correct. The prof is the hallmark. The zigzag stribe shoves that it is tested - but NOT the test result. Only the guardein mark states the prof.

The decoration. It has various names. In Germany "schlangenhaut" snakeskin pattern In Denmark its called "nålepunslet" i.e. needle punched.

The horse - in Denmark its called "pib i røv hest" i.e., Blow in the ass horse

I know many cultures even back to the Greek and Roman empires. Lerfløjter a commercial link in Danish. (translated)

I have a bird. You fill the bird with Water (I cannot see if you can put Water into the horse) If you can't fill with Water its a whistle.

The Water inside change the sound - it becomes a trille - Google translate trillefløjte into whistle. ant that's not what I am looking for. The sound (with the Water) becomes different highs sound like a bird singing.