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tline3open  Dual Marks in Ring

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Author Topic:   Dual Marks in Ring
Gaspare

Posts: 70
Registered: Jan 2004

iconnumber posted 02-16-2008 10:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gaspare     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Greetings,
I have in my collection several silver rings with the same 2 marks. These 2 marks have been identified with the help of this forum a while ago.
My question is why 2 marks?

*One mark presents itself as a F with a * [star] next to it in a rounded rectangle, which is the firm of F. Frey & Co. of Pforzheim.

*The other mark presents as a L with a n [in script] next to it in a triangle,, the firm of Jakob Lenz Nachfolger of Pforzheim

So why 2 maker stamps? Maybe one is a distributor? or the designer? and which would be which?

Does anyone know of the working relationship between these 2 firms?
Any information is appreciated.
Thanks for the help. ,G.

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blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 02-17-2008 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As the one who helped you originally, I feel obligated to correct some information I gave you. I no longer think that the "Ln" mark you posted is that of Jacob Lenz Nchf., whose mark should be in a circle. Rather, I think your "Ln" mark is one used a brief time in Germany called the "Laurin" mark, and which was used to designate high artistic and production quality on jewelry. It was used only for a short time, from 1934-ca.1938, being quickly abandoned following manufacturer's objections over the arbitrary and subjective nature of the mark.

Sorry for the bad information!

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Gaspare

Posts: 70
Registered: Jan 2004

iconnumber posted 02-19-2008 01:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gaspare     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Blakstone,,Wow, It's been driving me crazy since I've first read it.
May I ask what is your source material on the new informtion?

What is strange is after examining probably over 100 such rings with the mark it only appears next to the F * [F. Frey & Co.] OR by itself..

Also on a recent find in Germany of a hoard of silver that was finally [sitting since 1946!] to be scrapped was 30 or so rings with a paper tag riveted around the band and printed on them with the ring size, a stock number, the F* in rounded rect. and date of 1944!
Could it be that after 1938 the mark was voluntary?

Thanks for the help in trying to solve this mini mystery for me...,G.

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blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 02-21-2008 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm afraid I can't add very much information. My source for this is a very well-informed poster (on another forum) whose knowledge of German silver is far superior to mine; I trust him (or her!) unhesitatingly. I can say that I gather the mark was never compulsory - it was always applied at the discretion of the maker - and that the date of its cessation is vague. Also, its use was apparently restricted (in practice if not statutorily) to jewelry.

[This message has been edited by blakstone (edited 02-21-2008).]

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Gaspare

Posts: 70
Registered: Jan 2004

iconnumber posted 02-28-2008 01:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gaspare     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Blakstone, Thanks so much for all the help. Here's an interesting post I've gotten from a silver collecting friend whos been helping me research in Germany about the new development [at least for me!] of the Ln mark..

About the stamps/hallmarks:

"-"Laurin" is the name of an dwarf king from the old european myths(?). He
was known because his very well made juwelery.
You are right the "Ln" (latin letters) in an half-circle is the
"Laurin"-sign. Only taken to show that the stamped piece is made with
high quality and workmanship.
I got these infos from phone-calls with the Pforzheim Schmckmuseum and
the former Leader of the Pforzheim Schmuckmuseum, Dr. Fritz Falk (an
international specialist of juwelery and book writer).
Dr. Falk dates the "Laurin" beginning in 1934 ending about 1938/39.
Used by a lot of big and little manufactures for juwelery.
Pforzheim in this days was the leading city in germany for gold,
juwelery watches an so on, with hundrets of big and little manufactures.
The Schmuckmuseum goes in an totaly different direction - they work
about new and international jewelery - so they unfortunately havn``t
specialists or document in old Pforzheim juwelery, old hallmarks and so
on.

By searching in the books/dokument of the city of Pforzheim the
following:

Jakob Lenz Nachfahre, juwelery, first in books of Pforzheim in 1887, in
1919 same name of the company but new owner until 1925 (Robert
Hauschild), next owner unknown, company was 1943 the last time in the
Pforzheim books.
Books of 1944 and 1945 no more existing.
First next book 1946 and the following - Jakob Lenz Nachfahre - ditn``t
exist.
(for explaining - Pforzheim was nearly complete destroyed by a bomb
attack)

F. Frey & Co. - unknown.
But W. Frey & Co (owner Wilhelm Friedrich Frey) since the middle of the
19th century in Pforzheim. At the end of the 19th century (about 1890)
the ownership changes to Friedrich Frey (brother/son? of W. Frey) untill
1925.
Next owner unknown. But company exists in Pforzheim at leasr to the
middle of the fourtys. Then company moved to Illingen/Donau and closed
2003.
No papers and documents about."

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