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Author Topic:   Silver spoon from Italy
Dick Marti

Posts: 11
Registered: Feb 2013

iconnumber posted 03-04-2013 08:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dick Marti     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-2373]

This is a 10cm long spoon that is stamped "Italy" (not Italia) on the bottom of the bowl. The bowl was soldered to the handle. The decoration of the handle is apparently intertwined vines with a wolf suckling Romulus and Remus, a familiar Roman motif. The handle is somewhat worn and the imagery is not very clear. Can someone tell me a bit about this spoon, particularly its possible dates of manufacture? It seems to be old, but I wonder why such a spoon would be stamped "Italy" rather than "Italia". The picture is here:


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Dick Marti

Posts: 11
Registered: Feb 2013

iconnumber posted 03-04-2013 11:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dick Marti     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This spoon was my Mother's. I'd like to know something about it. I don't know anything about silver, so I have come here to ask questions.

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Hose_dk

Posts: 400
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 03-05-2013 12:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Dick Marti

The spoon is a souvenir spoon - Italy is the internationalization.
Its part of a serie, from different cities - Venice lion, etc so you could buy 6 spoons from different cities. The motive with Romulus & Remus - relates to the foundation of Rome.
Sorry that all I can supply, hope that at least some was useful.

Age would be somewhere from the 50ties onward. Difficult to say when. How long have it been in your position That would give an idea of age.

And again welcome to the forum. Post some more questions and lets see if we can assist. Regards from a danish member.

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Dick Marti

Posts: 11
Registered: Feb 2013

iconnumber posted 03-05-2013 09:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dick Marti     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your comments.

I will keep this spoon, not sell it. It was my Mother's, but I don't know how she obtained it. There are 2 possibilities: my Dad may have brought it back with him from Italy. He was in Italy in 1945 during the war. The other possibility is that it was given to my grandfather. I have a letter addressed to my great-grandfather congratulating him on the birth of my grandfather in 1893. The man writing the letter mentioned that he was mailing a spoon for my grandfather. So, I don't know whether this spoon came to my Mother by way of my Dad being in Italy in 1945, or from from great-grandfather's friend in 1893. That's why I asked about the age; if it is a 20th century spoon, then it must have come from my Dad's time in Italy in 1945.

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Hose_dk

Posts: 400
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 03-05-2013 11:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would say the spoon is 1900hundreds - I would have difficulties in dating therefore this would might be 1945.

My 50ties onwards was based upon feeling in my stomach. So 45 might be an option.

So post some more questions - that would be fine. See what we can do.

And for this spoon - polish it, it should shine. Ment to shine when new - ment to shine today. Hand polish cannot harm it in any way.

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Dick Marti

Posts: 11
Registered: Feb 2013

iconnumber posted 03-05-2013 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dick Marti     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your comments.

I did a Image search on various combinations of the words vintage, figural, Italian, spoon, and antique. I found a lot images of very similar spoons. Some had the same handle with a different bowl. Others had handles with different images on the end.

Several people owned sets of these spoons, described as "demitasse" spoons. Others called them "souvenir" spoons.

Several images were from the dreaded auction site and had similar spoons listed for a little. I had gotten a feel that this spoon was 20th century and this agrees with your statement. I was kind of hoping that this was my grandfather's spoon because I have so little of his stuff; I have more of my Dad's. I have also read that these spoons might be brass or pewter (silverplated).

How can I tell what it is made of?

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Hose_dk

Posts: 400
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 03-06-2013 12:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My mentioning of level Captains Spoons was on the edge. With my history acceptable - for a newbie it would be over the edge and sniped smile

Difficult to guess of metal - It should have hallmarks if silver. Try to look.

I fully understand you want something from family heritage. I do too Family silver ?

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-07-2013 05:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Dick.

To add a bit more to what Hose_dk has already explained, this particular spoon is a tourist souvenir item from someone's travel to Italy. It is possible that it could be as old as the 1940s, but it is equally possible it could be 1950s or 1960s or even 1970s as it is a simple and popular design. Yours is cast from some kind of metal that does not appear to be silver. If it were silver it will have a marking of either .800 or .925 stamped into the metal. The .925 marking would mean it is 92.5% pure silver which is the standard for sterling, or if it were marked .800 that would mean it is 80% pure silver which is about the lowest standard for things made of silver anywhere. If your spoon does not have either of these two common Italian silver markings then it is almost certainly made of a base metal such as pewter or pot metal or such. This one is cast in a mold and compared to ones made of silver it is fairly crudely made with little detailing.

It could be something your father brought back from his time in the Army immediately after the war, but I think that it might be more likely to be something he acquired sometime later in life, perhaps between the 1950s and 1970s either from a vacation to Italy or perhaps it was given to him by someone else who had visited Italy, or he could have even picked it up at a flea market or something.

All of that doesn't really mean very much since the real importance of the spoon is that it is something that was his and it gives you memories of him. I have some things from my father and I wish I had more.

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Dick Marti

Posts: 11
Registered: Feb 2013

iconnumber posted 03-07-2013 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dick Marti     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kimo, thanks for taking the time to post your long and detailed comments. I appreciate it.

That spoon is rather well worn, so worn in fact that it's not obvious that it was crudely made. I searched for markings, but I will look again. I think the descriptions of other spoons like this one were supposed to have the word "Roma" or "Rome" on it. If it was there it is gone now. It seems pretty clear that this is not a spoon from 1893. My Dad was in Italy until November of 1945, and never went back and he did not collect Italian spoons. Unless I see evidence that this particular type of spoon was only made after November of 1945, then I will take it as having been bought in Italy in that year.

I am not a collector of silver, nor a silversmith, nor a salvage operator. I am interested in a lot of different things, but my main interest during retirement is my on-line book-selling business. I recently rented space at a consignment mall and had some space left over after I moved a bookcase into my space (the space is only 2x8 feet) so I bought a box of scrap silverplate and pewter at the flea market, cleaned these up and have offered them for sale. Some pieces are badly damaged and so I asked a question in another thread about silver recovery and got burned for that. In the middle of all that, I have some silver items of my Mother's, including this spoon. I may ask about some of the other items later; I don't want to flood the forum with too many questions at once. Thanks again.

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-07-2013 11:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Feel free to ask questions about your inherited things that you are keeping for yourself. Please do not ask about anything you are currently or planning to offer for sale though.

To give you just a bit of background on those people you see trying to strip the silver from silver plate, there is so little silver on silver plate, the cost to strip it is quite high, and the bullion value of silver is quite modest and is declining as it is not a very rare metal. The far more important point, though, is that silver plate can be beautiful and collectable and stripping the silver from it really ruins what is often something worth preserving. Some silver plated objects are far more artistic and beautiful than some sterling silver objects.

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Hose_dk

Posts: 400
Registered: May 2008

iconnumber posted 03-08-2013 12:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hose_dk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let me add. When stripping the silver off an old item where plating is already dammaged. You will sometimes get a butifull brass object. Often items in jugend become quiet attractive comparred to a half worn off silver plate.
I think its a pity but also see how the brass becomes shining.

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Dick Marti

Posts: 11
Registered: Feb 2013

iconnumber posted 03-08-2013 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dick Marti     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One comment and one question: the guy I met at the flea market described his silver salvage operations but also mentioned the nice brass or copper object underneath. So not all is lost. And my question---does anyone every try to replate damaged silverplate? Instead of taking the silver off, put more on it to restore the piece.

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agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 03-08-2013 03:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes. It is possible to get items replated. Whether is is worth doing would depend on the item.

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