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tline3open  Counterfeit diestamps -- Does each one come with a blank spoon?

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Author Topic:   Counterfeit diestamps -- Does each one come with a blank spoon?
wev
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Posts: 4084
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 07-09-1999 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Speaking of fakes -- there is a series of auctions up on ebay of mark punches for various historic silversmiths: Cornelius Vanderburgh, Nicholas Roosevelt,Jacob Lansing, Peter Getz, etc. "... nice die ready for your personal uses or fooling your friends" as the description says. It is difficult to make out the quality or scale of the marks, but it should be interesting to see what starts turning up in the marketplace in a few months time.

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Scott Martin
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Posts: 11321
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 07-09-1999 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
here is what to look out for:

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wev
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Posts: 4084
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 07-09-1999 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Scott. Perhaps someone of a legal bent can discuss when the use of such punches enters into illegality. Final point of sale? Based purely on an intent to deceive? In England, of course, simple possession is a crime, but what laws apply here?

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FredZ

Posts: 1069
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 07-12-1999 11:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FredZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The marking of an item with a mark not your own is wrong. I am excited by the thought that these forged punches have been found and can only hope that they will find there way to a research library where they can be used to help identify forgeries. I have contacted the seller and hope that they can find their way to the right home. The bids have been pulled from EBAY.

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Scott Martin
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Posts: 11321
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 07-19-1999 07:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On July 9th I contacted the seller of the dies/punches. I suggested that the dies/punches be removed from eBay and only offered to a proper institution such as a museum ......

The seller's first response is what follows.

quote:

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:26:06 EDT
From: Bobbie7770@aol.com
To: S. Martin

hi scott,

thanks for writing, at least you signed your name thus my reply....some others just "honked" w/o name so heck with them.....these things were made in upstate new york who specialized in early new york silver mostly dutch pieces, about 15 years ago i bought from his son many early silver....about a dozen tankards (no hype) beakers, porringers, tea pots, coffee, and the like.....old man was an established collector from the twenties but decided to make things of his own by actually raising and hammering out pieces, he put together many a rare piece by putting together parts....guess them things were available in the early days, some english some continental some american combined to make things.....well, i had sold those questionable pieces all to dealers in upstate new york and i am sure they have sold all to saratoga area collectors.....i sold as fakes and they sold as real.....this doctor was also a superb engraver as most of the tankards and pots had coat of arms.....what you suggest is fine with me as they did not meet the reserve yet but i will not take them off ebay once the reserve has been met, gotta be fair to the bidders you know, bobbie


He/she didn't remove them from eBay. The subsequent e-mails (total of 8) don't really add anything of interest and concluded with an abrupt go away type message. A few days later, I was pleased to see the auction eventually end without the reserve being met.

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Cheryl and Richard

Posts: 154
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 07-19-1999 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cheryl and Richard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Education is the only practical solution. We must all share our knowledge and experience with others, particularly when we see something so immoral.

------------------

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Scott Martin
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Posts: 11321
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 03-14-2001 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One of the marks surfaces!! See:
Is Mr. Getz spinning in his grave?

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