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 MARK ID
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| Author | Topic: MARK ID |
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Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 12-17-2003 03:37 PM
  
[01-1341] I've had this skewer for some time. It is about 14 1/4" and fairly heavy. The marks look to be either IM or LM along with either a d or p, depending how you look at it. Anybody have any ideas... English, American or? IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 12-17-2003 04:56 PM
I don't know who the maker might be, but it looks like the Birmingham date letter for 1801. IP: Logged |
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Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 12-17-2003 05:22 PM
WEV, I never thought of Birmingham. The date letter (If that's what is.) looks sort of right, but I can't find Birmingham makers to match the IM. Beldon pictures an IM mark for John McMullin which looks very close, but then what is the other mark? Could this be English provincial? IP: Logged |
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Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 02-28-2009 07:40 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on this? IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 03-01-2009 06:38 PM
I think you can rule out Birmingham or any other English assay office - they wouldn't strike just a date letter alongside the maker's mark. If I am right in thinking the skewer is probably early 19th century (or even if it is late 18th)you could also rule out English provincial more generally as it was no longer a normal practice for provincial silversmiths to mark their work independently without assay. Scottish provincial may be a possibility. I don't recognise the mark but I have little knowledge of Scottish makers. However, I have seen Scottish provincial pieces which carry what I think of as a pseudo date letter though it may have some other significance(indeed I own an example). This side of the pond marks like this are often described as probably colonial. My only colonial reference book is for the Cape of Good Hope and the marks don't appear there. So, no real help from me I fear! [This message has been edited by agphile (edited 03-01-2009).] IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 03-02-2009 08:59 AM
I can't help with the markings, but I was wondering if it is a skewer or a letter opener? Either seems possible to my eye, though my initial leaning is towards letter opener since the blade seems a bit wide for skewering things. Are there catalogs of the 1800s that show skewers of this general design? IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 03-02-2009 11:29 AM
At fourteen and a quarter inches, a skewer seems the likely of the two. IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 03-02-2009 02:16 PM
I don't really have much experience with Georgian skewers, but are they usually that flat and wide? IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 03-02-2009 04:28 PM
quote: I think so, but maybe not always quite that long. A letter opener would be half that length or less. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 03-02-2009 05:57 PM
To be honest, if I had that scewer, it would probably get used as a letter opener at some time. It would be ideal for large envelopes. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 03-03-2009 09:14 AM
Re-use of an old skewer as a letter opener seems an eminently sensible way of recycling a bit of heritage. I wonder when letter openers were first made and marketed as such? My guess would be end 19th or early 20th century after the advent of gummed envelopes. I don't think you would have sliced the earlier folded paper covers that were likely to have written text on the inside. On the shape and size of skewers, I agree thatthe example here is within the normal size range though towards the top end. I think the blades are more usually slightly ribbed back and front, but flat bladed examples certainly exist. My impression is that earlier skewers tend to be relatively plain and decoration such as the shell below the ring on the example under discussion becomes more common through the 19th century. However, I am no expert on skewers. I guess this is one of those pieces that is certainly interesting and with the possibility of becoming more interesting if anybody ever manages to identify the marks. IP: Logged |
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Brent Posts: 1507 |
posted 03-03-2009 09:30 AM
My thoughts: Genuine Georgian period skewer, not all that uncommon in size or form. You can find some cut down in length, sometimes to remove damage, others deliberately cut down to use as letter openers. Yours looks to be whole and intact. As for the marks, the IM is too crude to be English, but it looks like it might be an overstrike. The d does look like real English date letter. If you look at the monogram closely, can you see any evidence of hallmarks being erased or defaced? There are little "ruffles" in the middle of both letters of the monogram that don't seem to fit, and I suspect they might be hiding something. Anyway, my best guess is that this is an English skewer of the period, with three or four English hallmarks removed or overstruck, and one left for some reason. The IM could be McMullin; Philadelphia imported and sold a lot of English silver. Brent IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 03-03-2009 11:42 AM
Off track, but a comment on letter-openers: Until pretty recently (mid-19th c?), books and periodicals were sold with their pages uncut. So I would bet the letter opener grew naturally out of the more common paper knife. I'm not sure about the timing, but I can imagine gummed envelopes arising around when books stopped needing their pages cut, allowing out-of-work paper knives to retrain for a new career in letter opening. [corrected typo] [This message has been edited by Polly (edited 03-03-2009).] IP: Logged |
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Kayvee Posts: 204 |
posted 03-03-2009 04:33 PM
The Jan-Feb 2007 issue of Silver Magazine had an article by Fred Sinfield about letter openers. He states that they first appeared around 1840 in Britain with the introduction of prepaid envelopes and adhesive postage stamps. He discusses their relationship to paper knives. Is there still an agreement with Silver Magazine to reproduce articles here? If so, this one might be of interest for this thread. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 03-03-2009 05:00 PM
I'll ask. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 03-04-2009 10:35 AM
We got back a affirmative response about the Fred Sinfield letter openers article.... it may take a few more days to prepare and post. IP: Logged |
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Kayvee Posts: 204 |
posted 03-04-2009 11:51 AM
Good news! Thanks. IP: Logged |
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Sgt Silver Posts: 41 |
posted 03-06-2009 10:40 PM
And we are curious to read it. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 03-07-2009 07:41 PM
The article has been posted A Useful Blade IP: Logged |
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jersey Posts: 1203 |
posted 03-07-2009 08:58 PM
Hello Scott! What a wonderful article, thank you for sharing. Now I know what I have. Jersey IP: Logged |
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