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tline3open  Re-Gilding - Part 2

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Author Topic:   Re-Gilding - Part 2
chase33

Posts: 362
Registered: Feb 2008

iconnumber posted 02-27-2008 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chase33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey all

So since we hashed through the various methods of gilding, I have a few more thought provoking (I hope) questions:

  1. Would re-gilding (or alternatively removing the remaining gilding) raise, lower or no change to the value of a piece?

  2. Has anyone ever had pieces re-gilded? If so, what was the result?

  3. Are there any silversmiths, silver restorers that anyone has dealt with and recommends? (If this isn't a proper question to ask here, please let me know and I'll remove it.)

Robert

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agleopar

Posts: 850
Registered: Jun 2004

iconnumber posted 02-28-2008 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agleopar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
  1. Others will have a better take.
  2. Yes for 20th c. pieces, if it is a good job very satisfactory.
  3. Happy to recommend a company I have done business with for 25 years;
    Patrick Gill Co. in Woburn, MA.
    They do very good work, not the cheapest, silver polishing, plating and gilding.

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 02-29-2008 10:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We don't discuss values on the forum, other than in a most general and ancilliary way to other discussion points.

In general most serious collectors of old silver prefer things to be in as original condition as possible and with its original patina. That look is part of the history and charm of old silver.

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ellabee

Posts: 306
Registered: Dec 2007

iconnumber posted 03-01-2008 03:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ellabee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert's question about value seems well within the guidelines. There's not a question about a specific value, just whether it would be more likely to increase or decrease. And it's ancillary to the question of gilding.

I'm very interested in others' answers to #2 and #3. There's a pea spoon here that has a big dent in the bowl. The gilding in the bowl is very faint, but evenly so. I've wondered whether getting the dent repaired is likely to mess that up.

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agleopar

Posts: 850
Registered: Jun 2004

iconnumber posted 03-01-2008 07:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for agleopar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Ellabee,

The trick with dent removal and gilding, especially worn gilding, is not to mark or scratch it when getting the dent out. Most dent removal is done on steel or wood, both will make scratches and the norm is then to machine polish which can remove thin gilding and the light scratches that form the surface of old silver.

The best solution used to be to cover the tool with a smooth leather but a few years ago I stopped in to visit an instrument repair shop near me and they use polypropylene sheet a little thicker than a sheet of paper to cover the steel stakes. This works really well and usually only a little hand rub after will give an invisible job. Obviously the dent removal it self is done with hand pressure or a polypropylene hammer. A steel hammer is always a last resort in dent removal because the hammer marks then have to be removed.

My best guess is that the right person could give you a 95% job because it sounds like the gilding is thin and the dent is a little more than just a push to get it out. I would go ahead and have it done and if you were not happy it could always be re-gilded.


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chase33

Posts: 362
Registered: Feb 2008

iconnumber posted 03-01-2008 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chase33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you ellabee. Your response was just what I needed to hear. I wasn't sure what part of my question was considered off-limits by the response I received. Like you pointed out I was only asking in relation to questions already raised and was not looking for specific values. I think we have all heard stories about how the original finish was removed from some (formerly) priceless piece of furniture by well-meaning but unknowing persons. My question was in hopes of learning how to do the right thing and not making any terrible mistakes. While I understand and appreciate the guidelines about asking for specific values, I didn't think that my question out of line. Thanks again for your response.

Robert

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ellabee

Posts: 306
Registered: Dec 2007

iconnumber posted 03-01-2008 07:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ellabee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, agleopar; that's exactly the kind of information I need to feel equipped to talk with potential restorers.

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ellabee

Posts: 306
Registered: Dec 2007

iconnumber posted 03-02-2008 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ellabee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have just taken a long look at the pea spoon; the dent isn't as big or as noticeable as I remembered. Think I'll live with it.

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-03-2008 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I did give a general response to the whether restoring helps or hurts values - in general restoration detracts from an object's desirability among most collectors - especially for older or rarer works.

On the other hand, for relatively common or more modern objects that are damaged to the point of being unusable or otherwise being on their way to the recycler's melting pot - restoration can save them and give them new practical utility. In most cases, though, I would not normally expect the cost of the restoration to result in an increased collector's value that could be recovered were you to then sell the restored objects since they would have lost much of their historical charm.

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agleopar

Posts: 850
Registered: Jun 2004

iconnumber posted 03-04-2008 08:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for agleopar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kimo,

I would like to respectfully disagree with you on one point because of what I think is a very common misconception about repair. You say “ in general restoration detracts from an object's desirability among most collectors - especially for older or rarer works.” and “I would not normally expect the cost of the restoration to result in an increased collector's value that could be recovered were you to then sell the restored objects since they would have lost much of their historical charm.”

The misconception is that a repair will always be obvious and not necessarily good. I hear that a lot on these forums and I believe at a certain level it is not true.

Where it is true is with a bad repair. Bad repairs I believe are the norm; I see them and often spend time and customers money re-repairing them.

Having said that there are some excellent silver restorers out there (not many) and when I see their work I am always impressed. Actually the point is you do not see the work! That is the great thing about silver, it dents and you can take the dent out and if done right never know it was done. That is why it upsets me to see damaged silver in museums when I know how easy some repairs are. The trouble is in the wrong hands an easy repair can be done badly and this is why most people think that it should be avoided. Also there are some repairs that take an extreme amount of skill to even attempt – there are times when I have said that I can not do that or I have to stop here, other wise risk damage because my abilities stop at that point.

My reason for saying all this is really to encourage people to get that dent taken out of the spoon and coffee pot. Many repairs are easy, but do find a good repair person who will know and tell you from the beginning.

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Polly

Posts: 1970
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 03-04-2008 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wanted to add a point to Agleopar's: Sometimes repair is necessary to limit further damage, especially if you intend to use the object. At least, that's what I was told on this board when I had a dented coin silver cup covered with machine-turned engraving. The dents would have made the engraving wear unevenly. An expert (Agleopar himself) took the dents out for me. Now it looks better than new--because it looks properly old, just missing the dangerous dents.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 03-04-2008 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Repairs are like toupees; you never notice a good one.

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agleopar

Posts: 850
Registered: Jun 2004

iconnumber posted 03-04-2008 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agleopar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dale that is the best! It could be the company slogan for the repair firm of Monk and Bean (one is American and fastidious, the other is English and is all over the place).

Polly, thank you for the kind words.

[This message has been edited by agleopar (edited 03-04-2008).]

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