SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales


The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!

General Silver Forum



Silver Salon internal search
or

REGISTER (click here) How to Post Photos


customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  General Silver Forum
tline3open  Early repair

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Early repair
ahwt

Posts: 2173
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[01-2730]

Above is an unmarked Castleford style teapot of the type that has a hinged cover. This style dates from a decade or so before and after 1800 and they came with either a detachable, hinged or sliding lid. All the teapots I have seen, except this one, had stoneware lids - this one now has a silver lid. Attractive engraved wreaths surround the finial and the hinged end of the lid simply wraps around itself to form an opening for a dowel to be inserted to hold the lid in place.

I believe that the original lid broke and the owner had a silversmith fashion a new lid. The silver is not marked and I can not tell whether it is plated or solid silver. When I first saw it I thought that it might be an example of a "make-do", but for these the replaced part or repair would normally be made out of tin. In any case, I think it is a good example of a repair that was common in an earlier time period and that most likely would not be made today.

IP: Logged

Polly

Posts: 1939
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 10:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wouldn't a silver lid cost more than a new teapot? Someone must have really loved that teapot.

IP: Logged

ahwt

Posts: 2173
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 11:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with you. Normally "make-do" repairs fix the problem in a much simpler and less expensive way.

Many of the repairs were done by tinsmiths, but the repairs actually worked and added charm to the item.

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There were silversmiths all over the world, most sizeable villages had one. Skilled art ceramic workers were much more concentrated in specific places. A ceramic lid might have been cheaper unless you count the year it would take to send an order to England and receive the lid.

IP: Logged

Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1768
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 03-27-2009 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I love this! More than if the same teapot was all silver or all porcelain. Thanks for sharing, ahwt.

IP: Logged

ahwt

Posts: 2173
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-30-2009 05:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am glad you liked it Paul. I found this pot at the Tailgate show next to the Heart of Country show in Nashville last month. Silver is not a big seller with Country dealers, but they do seem to have an eye for objects that have been repaired and sometimes the repair can be quite ingenious. These old repairs are a good indicator that most objects were brought for the purpose they served.

IP: Logged

bascall

Posts: 1626
Registered: Nov 99

iconnumber posted 03-30-2009 07:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bascall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Right or wrong the lid just looks like it is too nicely done to be a replacement. Either way, I'll take it just the way it is!

IP: Logged

Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 04-05-2009 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any marks on the lid at all? I think it's wonderful, but here's my take on it: What I would suggest (and I don't see this as a negative) is that the lid was replaced in ca. 1900. At that time, these Castleford-type smear-glazed porcelains were collected hugely in the US and treasured (we have quite a few in Newark's collection). They were probably more valuable then than they are now, and silver in 1900 was 22 cents and ounce, cheaper than it has ever been before or since. Thus a treasured teapot without a lid, but otherwise perfect, could have a new silver lid made for maybe $15. well worth it at the time. It is a fascinating document of the shifting trends in collecting old ceramics.

IP: Logged

ahwt

Posts: 2173
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 04-05-2009 09:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


Thanks for your comments and insight Ulysses. The lid is not marked, but it is flexible and that may indicate that it is solid silver rather than plate. I do not see any base material, but sometimes that is not a good indication. From a silversmith's view it may have been easier to make the lid out of solid silver. I suspect that it is actually easier to work this material than with than some base material that has to be silver plated after the lid is cut to size.

I suspect that the finial is a stock item as are the threaded nuts at the ends of the solid rod.

I did take a closer look at the lid and one side of the flange portion (the left side in the picture) is slightly longer than the other side. The silversmith fitted the lid to the proportions of the pot as that is the way the pot is made.

I was mistaken when I said that the end was simply wrapped around itself for the formation of an opening for a rod or dowel. From the second picture you can see the lid in slightly smaller in thickness as is the tube and I now assume that a silver tube was simply soldered onto the end of the flange portion. Longer tubes of this type can be used as straws and work very well for mint juleps. This tube was most likely was stock item.

The tree peony below has nothing at all to do with this teapot, but much to do with the dismay of my wife when I cut it down to the ground last fall by mistake. I feel a certain amount of redemption this year in the ability of this plant to come back to life and simply wish to make a record of its survival. It's endurance also aided in my survival.

IP: Logged

bascall

Posts: 1626
Registered: Nov 99

iconnumber posted 04-05-2009 09:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bascall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Accepting that the lid is a good quality repair is no trouble, so now for another question. Would this teapot be considered an example of queens-ware?

IP: Logged

Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 04-05-2009 09:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nope. Queensware is ivory-colored earthenware, or, generically, creamware. This teapot is of the same vintage, but is of a feldspathic stoneware that can be translucent like porcelain. This was a more expensive ceramic than queensware (named by Wedgwood as a promotional tool to capitalize on Queen Charlotte's patronage).

IP: Logged

bascall

Posts: 1626
Registered: Nov 99

iconnumber posted 04-05-2009 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bascall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you. I've only read about queensware and that Castleford made a lot of it. Initially I thought it was white and utilitarian primarily, but the creamware description made me wonder.

Many nineteenth century American fancy good dealers and jewellers sold queensware.

IP: Logged

adelapt

Posts: 418
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 04-06-2009 06:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for adelapt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What a great discussion - it points out once again that there is so much to learn from things broken, mended, or altered, even if they are often not "accepted" by the purist. Thanks for it all.

IP: Logged

dragonflywink

Posts: 975
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 04-06-2009 11:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is a lovely piece and the repair wonderful. I find some make-dos quite charming, but this one is exceptional.

Congratulations on the peony! Have lived in Florida since my teens, and love our lush plant life - but still miss many that don't grow here, including the peonies, lilacs, apple trees and my beloved lilies of the valley.

~Cheryl

IP: Logged

ahwt

Posts: 2173
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 04-06-2009 01:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Cheryl, all of those plants grew well in St. Louis. We moved further south a few years ago and also miss the lilacs. The rest do grow here, but we have had a hard time getting lilies of valley to grow. My wife has finally found a good spot for them and they are coming up now.

The stapled "make-dos" were the first repairs I remember seeing. Whether used on a ceramic or glass item the skill of the repairer is amazing. The repaired item is just a functional after the repair as before.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2020 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices