Antiques Trade gazette on silver being scrapped

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Antiques Trade gazette on silver being scrapped

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Author	Topic: Antiques Trade gazette on silver being scrapped
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 05-04-2011 04:35 PM [01-2922] This is getting really scary. Ck out the article in May 3 2011 re scrapping silver! Jersey quote: Tonnes of antique silver scrapped after bullion price hike 03 May 2011 Just the top layer of a dustbin full of silver awaiting the melt at Hatton Garden bullion dealers 375 Live Ltd. They traded close to a tonne of silver on Tuesday, April 26, when the scrap value touched £30 an ounce. HUGE quantities of antique silver and gold were scrapped last week as precious metal prices hit record highs. Silver dealers in particular clamored to take advantage of a two-fold hike in the bullion market, the like of which has not been seen for 30 years. Driven by a weaker US dollar and continuing tensions in the Middle East and North Africa, the prices of gold and silver hit new record highs on Monday, April 25 (a bank holiday in the UK) and on the European markets the following day. Gold rose as high as $1518.30 (£918.70) an ounce, while silver briefly reached an all-time high of $49.79 (£30.13) an ounce. In the following days prices fell back a little, but silver, at close to £25 an ounce, is comfortably at its highest since January 1980 and the peak of the Bunker Hunt bubble (see here). The precious white metal has gained more than 160 per cent in the past year alone. These rises brought remarkable scenes as bullion dealers across the country were inundated with material for scrapping. Hatton Garden firm 375 Live Ltd traded close to a metric tonne of silver on Tuesday, April 26, when prices touched £30 an ounce. With their value as a raw material far outstripping their value as antiques, proprietor Steve Conway saw some "stunning" objects emerging from the dealing community to be scrapped. Good quality Victorian tea sets, Georgian salvers, trophies, cruet sets and flatware were melted onsite as more than £1.5m changed hands. When ATG visited the following day (when the price was just over £23 an ounce), the plastic dustbins filling with silver included items of the caliber of a large George II armorial-engraved salver weighing 70oz (scrap value £1610) and a late 19th century Tiffany engraved tea and coffee service weighing in at 260oz (£5980) with its ornate tea kettle and stand. If they had not been 'saved' by a buyer wishing to own them as functional works of art by the close of trading, they were heading to the crucible. Why have prices spiked? Silver is a key metal in the production of electrical components, but more generally investors are buying precious metals as a haven against a host of financial uncertainties (particularly inflation and a weak dollar) and the recent geopolitical turmoil. Gold has been strong since the global financial crisis of 2008. However, the price of silver has been more volatile, having quintupled since 2008, and has grown 12-fold in the last decade. By Roland Arkell IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 05-04-2011 04:50 PM A related article: quote: Echoes of Bunker Hunt 03 May 2011 THE events of recent weeks have echoes of the infamous Bunker Hunt era that saw scrap silver prices spike during an era of high oil prices and revolution in Iran. Nelson Bunker Hunt and his brother William Herbert Hunt began accumulating large amounts of silver in the early 1970s and by 1979 had nearly cornered the global market, with estimated holdings of 100 million ounces. The period between September 1979 and January 1980 saw the price of silver bullion rise from $11 an ounce to a fraction under $50. Silver prices ultimately collapsed to below $11 an ounce two months later, with the largest single-day drop occurring on what has become known as Silver Thursday. While Nelson Bunker Hunt profited by an estimated $2 billion during the speculation period, he ultimately filed for bankruptcy in 1988 under a deluge of market manipulation lawsuits. The market considers $50 an ounce as the record nominal high for silver, although veteran dealers say that in the chaotic trading of January 18, 1980, some small amounts changed hands in the physical market at higher prices. While no one can be sure which way the market will turn in 2011, bullion dealers make important distinctions between the Bunker Hunt bubble and currently strong price levels that have improved steadily over a much longer period of time and reflect wider economic conditions. Certainly if prices were to go even higher, more and more antique silver would be scrapped. IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 05-04-2011 05:30 PM Silver is currently undergoing a much needed correction. The correction is quite severe and deservedly so considering its recent parabolic rise. I believe that when the dust clears it will probably settle somewhere in the mid $30 range and then continue to rise again albeit at a much much slower rate. Hold onto your silver! IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 05-05-2011 10:20 PM Thank you Scott for posting the article. Mr. Kurtzman what would you reccommed in terms of buying? Jersey IP: Logged
Marc Posts: 414 Registered: Jun 2002	posted 05-06-2011 12:07 AM Hi there. Boy oh boy, this has been some ride ! Yes.. it looks like this bubble has burst. During the past 9 months and mostly since January 2011, everybody has been looking at silver as their darling. This included the small fry that did not want to be left out, and just like the housing bubble, where we all were going to make a bundle, "cannot lose" we followed like sheep (or in some cases Pigs) running off the cliff.. This started April 30th with George Soros (not sure or really care about spelling) selling off some of his silver, and continued with increased margin requirements on the Comex to buy or hold silver contracts. Folks got nervous, and then Comex increased it's margin requirements for silver again. Then China did the same thing. Not much, but it flat scared the silver speculators. "The sky is falling.. The sky is falling" Now you got rats jumping ship.. This is not the happy game or ending that the gamblers expected. Jersey.. Put your money in your checking account, and check your coin dealer regularly and buy some of the spectacular stuff that you like. Prices are down 30% from last week ( $49. to $34. per troy oz) and will go lower. I fully expect (imho), a fall to around $25. per oz., maybe further. Marc IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 05-06-2011 05:12 PM Thanks Marc. I was at a local sale late today that had some very nice, though small sterling serving pieces with good names, Gorham strasbourg, Alvin Blackington etc. Anything from sugar, mustard ladles, salt spoons & butter picks. The range was from $5-45....& no takers. I needed none but Wow... Jersey IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1627 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 05-06-2011 05:55 PM Neither gold nor silver are especially rare metals and the practical demand for them is far below their current prices, even with silver having come down to $35 and ounce. Of course things are also worth what people are willing to pay, but much of the current prices due to created fear, hype, greed, and market manipulation rather than from the supply of the stuff. If you look at an historical chart of the price of silver from 1985 through 2004, the price stays at about $5 to $8 an ounce. Since then it goes crazy but there is no corresponding jump in the practical need for silver for manufacturing or silverware (almost no one acutally buys real sterling silverware anymore) or for jewelry or photographs (everyone has gone to digital) or whatever. There are still plenty of mines producing raw silver. So all that is left as a reason for the gold and silver bubbles is manipulation by investors who pedal fear, hype and greed. Will the price of silver come back down to $5 to $8 an ounce? I don't know, and I think there will be a lot of people working to keep the market from letting that happen including mining companies, investors, and others who have a stake in trying to keep the price as high as they can, but that is its intrinsic value. [This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 05-06-2011).] IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 05-06-2011 06:19 PM Kimo, What is the intrinsic value of a piece of paper that says One Dollar on it? IP: Logged
June Martin Forum Master Posts: 1326 Registered: Apr 93	posted 05-08-2011 02:54 PM You can't get away from all of the talk about what's happening with the price of silver. Yesterday's Wall Street Journal had an article on "How to Surf the Silver Plunge" accompanied by a photo of a pile of silver headed for the scrapper and another article titled "Silver-Mad Small Investors Fueled an Epic Rise and Fall" talking about among other things a retiree with 60% of her net worth invested in silver as a hedge. Amongst all this craziness, the Design and Decorating section provided a blissful reprieve. An article about the joys of dining outdoors now that the weather has warmed up was a welcome diversion. Especially when the author talked about setting a beautiful table including SILVER!! IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1627 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 05-08-2011 09:01 PM quote: Originally posted by Richard Kurtzman: Kimo, What is the intrinsic value of a piece of paper that says One Dollar on it? I agree that modern currency has an issue of lack of direct intrinsic value, but it does have indirect intrinsic value which is based on a faith in the continuation of the American government. Precious metals do not have this - just their practical value as a useful metal plus their imagined value that is backed by a relatively small number of investors hoping to make a profit rather than governments. IP: Logged
ahwt Posts: 2334 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 05-08-2011 11:01 PM A New York Times article on silver and other commodity prices is in line with the comments by Marc. IP: Logged

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