posted 10-06-2010 03:05 PM            

Hi,

My name is Dave and I am an avid metal detectorist who lives in Connecticut in the USA.

I love digging up history and have found so many nice silver coins and historical relics and buttons too.

I dug this up at a old colonial foundation site.

just wondering if it can be dated based on the style of engraving used.

It is silver and has a pope or arch bishop on one side and who i think is Saint Anthony on the other side with the letters SA.

Curious to find out if this could be late 1700's or early 1800's most of the finds here dated from 1780's to no later than 1860.buttons and coins.

Any replies or info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Dave

Now if I can only figure out how to post pictures on this post?

posted 10-07-2010 03:20 PM            

I agree that the figure on the other side seems to be a bishop, an archbishop, or perhaps the Pope. Since this was found in Connecticut it could have belonged to someone who was from England or whose ancestors were from England and if so the odds are that it might be trying to portray the Archbishop of Canterbury who is the head of the Church of England. Or it could be a bishop or archbishop of any of many other churches, or even the Pope.

The figure apprears to be holding a crozier in his left hand but that is not only the staff of office of high ranking Catholic prelates, but it is equally the staff of office of similar high ranking prelates of the Anglican (Church of England), Lutheran, Pentecostal, and Eastern Orthodox churches, and possibly some others I am missing. The one symbol that would say the guy is the Pope would be the crossed keys, but I do not see that anywhere in the engraving so I would doubt he is intended to be the Pope. This religious figure is holding something in his right hand but I can not make out exactly what it is though perhaps it could be a small half-open book?

It is too bad someone cleaned the tarnish off of this object as that can sometimes help provide a clue to its age, though being buried in the ground for a long time in a place like Connecticut where the precipitation every year is substantial and the temperatures range from freezing cold to sweltering hot can make dating by degree of oxidation an uncertain undertaking.

Because this is an amateur made object I do not think coming up with a date based on its style would be very easy - it could be anywhere from hundreds of years old to just decades old. You might do better by looking at the strata from which you removed it and seeing what the other objects are that are found at that depth and in that layer at the site where you were detecting. Did you find any pottery, or glass or nails or hope-beyond-hope any coins with dates that might help you determine the age of the other things at that strata? I think the archaeological context would be your best hope for coming up with a meaningful approximate date for it. I know you found it in the area of a colonial era building foundation, but while that is tempting to think things found there date from that era, it is also possible it was dropped there at any time between then and now since all of Connecticut has been rather well populated since those days with people walking around and losing all sorts of things over the intervening years.

One other observation is the hole on the one side seems to have been made by punching through rather than drilling, and it has left a pronounced lip around the hole. If this had been worn for very long at all I would have expected that to have been worn away rather quickly. Perhaps it was nailed to something instead which in addition to the lip around the hole would also account for its very odd shape if it was fitting around something? If so, the round hole would mean it is not very old since during colonial times nails were hand forged and were square, then during the 1800s they started making cut nails which were also square. Round nails did not really get started until the early 1900s when they invented wire nail machines.

posted 10-07-2010 04:58 PM            

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If so, the round hole would mean it is not very old since during colonial times nails were hand forged and were square, then during the 1800s they started making cut nails which were also square. Round nails did not really get started until the early 1900s when they invented wire nail machines.

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posted 10-07-2010 07:25 PM            

Thanks for the responses.

I had to clean one side as it was full of dark green stains from vegetation. The other side I just left as is.

Like i said most of the finds from this site i.e. coins, buttons, pottery was from 1780's-1860's. I know it was amateur made but I thought maybe somebody would recognize what type of tool was used to engrave the motif.

Its not just scratched in. It has angles into the cuts or grooves. It appears to have been from a piece of sheet silver and the surface is smooth to the touch as well. If you use your finger nail obviously you can feel the grooves of the etching.

Thanks so much for your replies so far.

Dave

posted 10-07-2010 08:14 PM            

If the flower is a lily, then it seems fair to assume SA is St Anthony because that is one of his symbols. Scott has already suggested St Patrick for the Bishop, which is how I believe he is usually represented.

I agree that the naïve execution makes dating the object by its style difficult if not impossible. I would think it is of Roman Catholic origin. The Church of England, and, I guess, other protestant Episcopalian churches, are less into representation of these saints. One question, therefore, is whether there was likely to be a Roman Catholic presence in the vicinity of the find in the colonial period or by what date this becomes likely. The choice of saints, if the Bishop is indeed St Patrick, makes me think a later, perhaps 19th century, date more probable. However, I may have an over-simplified view of who migrated to which parts of America and when.

I imagine the object was meant to be seen from both sides as each is engraved. This suggests to me that it was meant to be suspended rather than pinned, either from a garment or perhaps from a light fitting or to decorate some sort of shrine, but that doesn’t help with dating unless somebody recognises it as having a use peculiar to a particular period.

However, I also wonder whether the punched hole might be a later addition in which case I have no idea what the object may originally have been part of.

posted 10-07-2010 09:35 PM            

I believe there was a strong catholic based community here in this area of Connecticut during that time. I guess I'm safe to say that this piece is no newer than 1860.

The barrel tap, broken crockery, civil war buttons and colonial cloak buttons all came out of this cellar hole foundation area. I believe the home was last occupied in 1868 then abandoned. There is no wood left of the structure. Just a cut stone lined hole in the ground with a stone lined well 20 yards away from it.

I will post a pic below of the colonial site so you can get an idea of where I found it.

posted 10-07-2010 11:01 PM            

I love your piece, mostly since I am a lover of St. Anthony. He is the founder of lost things .
He has helped me many times. It's a keeper!

posted 10-08-2010 05:39 AM            

How ironic that he is the patron saint of lost items and I find this.

Last year I found a newer sterling st David medal. Never even heard of st David.

Thanks again!
Dave

posted 10-20-2010 05:05 PM            

quote:

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"Sint Anna ter Muiden was one of the first places in the Dutch coast with a worship Anna. Anna, the grandmother of Christ and mother Mary was not only patron of marriage and the family is also patron of the seamen. Sailors and traders prayed and thanked here for a safe crossing. Even after the village in the 14th century by silting and land reclamation had come inland to lie, it remained until the 16th century a pilgrimage".

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It's interesting why the two figures stand at this medallion. One (the pope figure o.e. showing the religion's group, the other St. Anna ? for protection during the journey over sea and land for the person who carried it.

In Europa there is also St.George medallion original made in the 17th century in gold in Germany and remade in later periods also in pewter. Also for protecting the traveler during his/her voyage.

These one's are printed with a Latin text.
But like some members explained there are a lot of St.'s each one with a purpose.
St.Anna was also protecting the growth, harvest, or plants.That's what I see holding in her hands.

I will read the topic again and perhaps react twice. The location looks great and thanks for sharing the knowledge. Perhaps old maps of the area will give you also more information, head archives must have them. Or old detailed military maps.

Success!