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Author Topic:   wiccan silver
argentum1

Posts: 602
Registered: Apr 2004

iconnumber posted 11-07-2011 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for argentum1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[01-2985]

A coffee pot just sold on the 'west coast site' listed as '1730 American Coin Silver repousse witchs Coffee Pot'. My question is ,as I know practically nothing about witchcraft,could this have been made in the 1730's or would any silversmith have dared to make such a thing in that time period? The construction and repousse work to me is not that good so to me it could be a much later fanciful piece. Soo much to know and so little time.

quote:
Rare c.1730 American Coin Silver Repousse Coffeepot. Wiccan/Pagan Decoration

Offered for auction is this very rare and unusual circa 1730 unsigned American tapered cylinder coin silver coffee pot standing 8.25in. tall to top of finial. Pot displays old construction techniques consistent with the early 18th century, also crafted from thick coin silver being quite heavy for its size at 709 grams. Beautiful early Rocco style repousse band with foliate scrolls amongst flowers, two cartouches and one sprig of gourds over one cluster of elderberries near left side of handle, having a total of thirteen flowers; 11 in repousse and two engraved; one on both sides of spout base. Style and form very similar to English coffeepots of this period. Handle looks to be fruit wood skillfully carved with leaves down the spine leading to a inverted cross. Coffeepot is unmarked but has tested positive for solid silver construction of approximately .900 in purity.

Condition is very good for its age having moderate surface wear, some shallow dents, nicks and has a small silver repair at top handle pin [photo] but handle is tight with no play. Also I believe the handle pins and lid hinge pin are replacements as they are brass, most likely replaced when the silver repair was done. I believe the handle is original. Not sure if finial has been repaired or if it was originally secured by pouring molten silver into the inside lid cavity, instead of being secured by a wing nut but makes for a very durable finial that is permanent. I feel this is likely original construction as it fits in with how the base was constructed as the foot ring and base are secured by molten silver solder poured in a channel created by the foot rim securing both to the pot, also having no internal strainer at spout base, all typical of very early pots. No monograms or removals. 2.75in. diameter across top rim and 4.5in. diam. across base being 8in. from back of handle to tip of spout.

As most American silver of the early 18th century was made in Mass., I feel this coffeepot displays a subtle dissent by the silversmith regarding the Salem witch trials which most of society found abhorrent being the turning point of Boston becoming more of a metropolitan society. If it were not for the other decorative elements, I would guess this was a ecclesiastical piece of silver with the inverted cross being the Cross of St. Peter, but in conjunction with the thirteen flowers, gourds, and elderberry cluster [I feel these are elderberrys, not grapes due to the dimples on each berry and leaves surrounding cluster], may be more of a pagan or wiccan use as all these are elemental in their rituals and beliefs, including grapes.

Though most people don't agree with these kinds of beliefs[myself included] there is no denying that American silver from the early 18thC. is very rare with most in museums, but having wiccan symbolism decoration is extremely rare, possibly being the only example of its kind no matter what country of origin. Silver collectors; don't let the history spook you as as far as I can tell this pot is not haunted as nothing bad or unexplained things have not occurred since I have owned it [no heavy oppressive feelings, sick feelings etc.] , being what you make it to be, being a beautiful extremely rare piece of silver to me and nothing more than the type of merchandise.


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wev
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Posts: 4121
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 11-07-2011 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The description was, to be kind, ludicrous.

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11520
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 11-07-2011 02:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It sold for more than scrap but not much more. I suspect the buyer believes (maybe they have a spell) silver will be going up$.

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swarter
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Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 11-07-2011 09:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe the seller was under a spell??? Or trying to put potential buyers under one??? rolleyes

Actually a little Halloween humor might serve to distract from obvious defects: damage/repairs that should make an otherwise nice looking pot unsaleable, or else the original bottom could have had marks that would have told a different story, and so it could have been removed. "Witch" do you think? confused

[This message has been edited by swarter (edited 11-07-2011).]

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wev
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Posts: 4121
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 11-07-2011 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To which I can but reply . . . BOO!

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 11-08-2011 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree this one is just plain silly and the seller is either delusional or trying to pull a fast one.

But one it does raise a real question in my mind. When were the first coffee pots made? Coffee was not really a popular drink in most parts of the world until relatively recently - between the 1600s and 1700s in many parts of Europe and the new world. When did coffee pots become a standard product of silversmiths in Europe, and when did they become a standard product of silver smiths in the Americas?

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wev
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Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 11-08-2011 05:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Two of the earliest I know of are by Charles Le Roux, c 1720-1735

The second has the basic form of chocolate pots of the period, but does not have the removable finial one would expect.

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agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 11-08-2011 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I believe the earliest known English silver coffee pot is hallmarked 1681 and is now in the Victoria and Alber Museum. I'm afraid I don't have a picture of it.

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wev
Moderator

Posts: 4121
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 11-08-2011 07:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A Boston town record dated 1670 granted Dorothy Jones license to sell "coffee and cuchaletto (chocolate)." It is not known if she was selling bulk goods or had a coffee house like the ones which had begun popping up in London several decades earlier. The first license specifically to that purpose is dated 1691, issued to Bostonian Benjamin Harris, proprietor of the London Coffee House.

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 11-09-2011 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks everyone. Does anyone have any dates for some of the earliest American made coffee pots, or any dates for when they became a relative common product by a number of early American smiths? The purported date on the one that started this thread is 1730 and sounds awfully early to me for an American made coffee pot.

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wev
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Posts: 4121
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 11-09-2011 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are some earlier chocolate pots, but the Le Roux pieces I posted are the oldest I have ever seen mention of. The date given in the auction is pure fantasy.

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