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Author Topic:   Another One Bites the Dust
chicagosilver

Posts: 227
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 12-01-2011 09:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for chicagosilver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, I know, it's not silver (there is lead in the crystal), but this is yet another example of how little respect there is for handicraft in our culture.

After over a century in business, Steuben Glass is no more. It closed its last factory in Corning, NY Tuesday, firing most of its 60 employees.

At one point, Steuben glass was nearly as popular as that from Tiffany or Lalique. Now, like so many silver makers, it's history.

One of the most discouraging trends today is that too many young people sneer at handmade things, calling them anachronisms. They say "why spend money on a handmade bowl when you can buy a nice imported machine-made one for a lot less, then buy a flat-screen TV or a weekend vacation with the savings?" Maybe they're right. But there's still a lot of value in hand craftsmanship.

Unfortunately, while there are still a few individuals creating beautiful decorative objects today, the people on this forum may end up as curators and historians of a handicraft movement that is disappearing as we watch.

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argentum1

Posts: 602
Registered: Apr 2004

iconnumber posted 12-01-2011 01:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for argentum1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I go shopping most of what I see is 'made in china'. It is not that much less than 'Made In U.S.A.'. So now on to the silver; After talking to the kids and other relatives no one really wants the silver. If they do not want it then they will not get it just to sell as bullion. They will get enough as it is. And this is why most of it has been donated to several county historical societies and a few museums. Just call me the grumpy old geezer.

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11520
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 12-01-2011 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Sadness grows. ..... frown

I have often thought starting a forum that would help drawn in the young and mass production consumer smart phone zombies. But I soon came to realize unless the moderators were fluent in ”txt” and 'twitter" speak then how would we ever know the Guidelines were being followed eek ?

When I was young my parents would carefully consider every purchase. Sure there were purchases that would overtime depreciate. But the purchases with declining value would be kept to a minium and my parents made sure we got the maximum from those purchases. Generally when household contents were purchased by my parent, they did their best to buy what was a good long term investment. Our household contents was a way to build family wealth.

Today its not the same. Today its more "do I have the latest and greatest" consumerism. Today, the minute something is purchased it becomes less valued & too easily disposable for what is the next buzz. frown frown

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middletom

Posts: 467
Registered: May 2004

iconnumber posted 12-01-2011 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for middletom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also see the decline in interest in well-made, handmade items among the young. Some families seem to pass the appreciation on to the following generations though they are few and far between. We recently had a visit from one of the grandsons of Julio Gallo, the wine maker, for we have made a great deal of silver for their family and as he was coming this way for business and decided to stop in and see us for himself. The whole Gallo family has spoken about how much they love our silver but this young man had to admit that he seldom used his ONC silver. We told him to use it, for that was what it was made for. He and his wife left us with a greater appreciation for their silver from having seen just how it was made and learning that the "hand" in handwrought was not just ad speak.

I hope that in the future enough young folks can become interested in the finer rather than the newest things. I suspect, though, I am a "voice crying in the wilderness".

middletom

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agleopar

Posts: 850
Registered: Jun 2004

iconnumber posted 12-02-2011 07:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for agleopar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with everything said above and feel that it is a changing world. There are three issues with "hand made".

The first I feel quite strongly about and that is that the companies that are gone mostly relied on old/bad design that did not keep up with young taste.

Second it is expensive.

Lastly you have to search it out, so if you do not know or have never lived with it, compared to mass produced it is relatively hidden.

I think these three things have conspired to sink the decorative arts. They are not dead but are dwindling, there will always be people who make beautiful things just less and less.

If any of you have a chance go to one of the best craft shows, Smithsonian (at the Renwick), Philadelphia Museum Of Art or Evenston, IL (American Craft Exposition). They have some of the best craft/hand made design in the country.

As for silver I find there is a market for that one special thing and my young customers are happy to buy it. They do not want a lot of old silver.

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chicagosilver

Posts: 227
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 12-02-2011 08:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for chicagosilver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, many failed decorative arts companies relied on old designs, but the recent articles on Steuben say one of their downfalls was "push[ing] too much what they thought was trendiness" (Mary Jean Madigan, Steuben expert), and trying to mass-market items that required a certain sophistication in taste.

When I talk to younger people about silver they say it feels dated, and they don't want to polish it. They'd rather spend their money on immediate gratification (fancy dinners, new clothes, vacations, electronics).

Some of this is expected. Youth is wasted on the young. But part is a result of bad examples. Kids just don't see great silver pieces. They don't go to museums, and a lot of museums just throw all their silver into one overwhelming room. Department stores offer schlocky silver without much character. The only exposure kids get is in seeing junky tarnished silverplate at aged Aunt Bessie's house.

If you show a few timeless silver objects (especially jewelry) to the ones with better artistic sensibilities they do like them. But buying silver is just not on their radar.

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middletom

Posts: 467
Registered: May 2004

iconnumber posted 12-03-2011 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for middletom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The great majority of our customers are those who have matured and made some money for themselves and have learned an appreciation for the finer things in life and have grown to understand the special feel and look of handwrought silver. We do not sell much at all to the bridal market because it is hard to ask someone to spend a thousand dollars for a gift and that gift is just one place setting of silver. As long as we can reach those who are our market, I feel we will always have an appreciative group to keep us going. The big "if" is whether ownership can bring itself to promote the silver to the audience awaiting the contact and enlightenment. We can rest on our laurels only so long.

middletom

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seaduck

Posts: 350
Registered: Dec 2006

iconnumber posted 12-03-2011 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for seaduck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A couple of comments:
  1. Re Steuben: I wonder if they suffered from bad retail strategies -- especially as there seems to be a resurgence of interest in new art glass (credit Chihuly, maybe). I was in the market for a wedding gift last spring, and thought that one of the newer Steuben designs would be perfect -- a Steuben piece would satisfy my inner traditionalist, but some of the contemporary designs for bowls would satisfy the Modern tastes of this sophisticated bride. I found them on the Steuben website but wanted to see and purchase in person. There was only one retailer in Boston (which I always thought of as a second tier store), and when I visited, I was appalled to see how little Steuben inventory they carried. And none of the pieces I was interested in. How could Steuben expect to sell stuff that no one sees? How did they expect to find new customers or remind old ones that they exist? As I recall, Shreve's used to carry Steuben, which they displayed in dramatically lit cases. In that store environment last spring, there was zero cachet.

  2. I don't know if this is optimistic or just plain ornery, but I don't think it's entirely true that young people eschew craft or finely made artisanal products. There is a lot of evidence to the contrary. But silver has a bad rep cuz of the tarnish/polish bugaboo, and maybe because so many younger people associate it with traditional styles. They do not see it being used in ways that pertain to their lifestyles. Maybe if some young celeb or hot young designer was photographed with a collection of silver in Dwell magazine that would change.

FWIW, I have some lovely contemporary silver pieces. When they are out, visitors are awestruck by them. No one ever comments on my 18th c treasures.

And writing that makes me think of another possible problem -- maybe "tastemakers" are reluctant to speak publicly about their collections for fear of theft.

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 12-03-2011 10:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sorry to see such an important name to go away. I have two of their small animals. At the same time I can not say I am surprised. With a small handful of exceptions their modern designs were not very graceful or artistic and that is what they should have focused on since they priced themselves at the highest end. Hand wrought is really wonderful, but you have to combine that with something truly breathtaking in design to be successful. When you look at the original pieces designed by Frederick Carder and Thomas Hawkes they are really incredibly beautiful. I have an original signed Hawkes bowl that is far beyond the modern Steuben in quality and beauty. The company left that tradition and without such genius artistic designers they struggled and relied too much on their storied name.

I also have some Lalique glass and while they are a little better, in my opinion more than three quarters of their glass is not well designed compared to what they used to have back when René Lalique was their designer - he was an artistic genius in my opinion.

Or even modern Tiffany. I think they, too, have lost their way in their silverware in terms of quality and detailing, as well as their other lines. In my opinion they made a mistake by hiring people like Elsa Peretti and Paloma Picasso to be their lead designers as they have taken them so far from the beauty and grace that Louis Comfort Tiffany originally created.

[This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 12-03-2011).]

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Polly

Posts: 1970
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 12-03-2011 11:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There's a strong thread of enthusiasm among some circles young people for handmade objects, which overlaps with enthusiasm for environmentalism. You can see it in the rise of etsy, for example, an online marketplace for handcrafted items, which are often made by hobbyists. And antiques are certainly "green"--they don't take new resources to produce.

But I don't know how much this translates to young people actually buying hand-wrought silver. $12 block-printed dish towels, maybe. $1000 sterling place settings, probably not.

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Marc

Posts: 414
Registered: Jun 2002

iconnumber posted 12-04-2011 11:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi there,

A few big downside players in this game have not been mentioned.

The first for the younger people are education loans, things that the older crowd never had to deal with on this level. The young adults these days, those that have jobs, are running fast just to keep their head above water.

Ask Scott what he paid for grad school...
I know I put my wife through professional school for $1800 a semester in 1978-81.
The same school today costs $24,000. a semester, not including books.

And we wonder why they don't want silver, or china, or crystal as much.

And us, the older generation, who have seen our portfolios crash and burn. Makes us a little more careful about what we purchase.
Those of us who can, give gifts to the youngsters from our own stash.

But, I am getting more house calls from 'empty nesters', downsizing and selling family heirloom silver and china and crystal,
because their children just do not want it.
I try telling the parents to "guilt" the kids into accepting some family history (silver).
Most say they have tried... so I leave it at that.

I also will miss Stuben, and all the other handcrafted pretties.

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argentum1

Posts: 602
Registered: Apr 2004

iconnumber posted 12-05-2011 12:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for argentum1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I go back a bit further which is 1964. My textbooks for 15 quarter hours cost me a whooping $95.00, ooh what I would give for the old days. Am I crazy, my first years salary was just under $12,000.00.

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