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 Buying damaged items
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| Author | Topic: Buying damaged items |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 07-21-2017 07:33 AM
  
I'd like to find out what collectors thinking is on buying items with damage. Understand that each item is taken on a case by case basis under their personal preference - and have read most of the threads on the forum that I can find on the subject. I had posted an English shell ladle labor to make this ladle ? in another section and it turns out there is a small split near a crease in the bowl a little over 1/4" long - pic attached. Have received an estimate from a qualified silversmith for repair which puts the total cost of the ladle well above reasonable IMHO. The seller will accept a return. So the base questions are really - do you buy and keep items with damage - discount them and take them at a certain price - or not consider them at all? Is this level of damage a big concern or part of dealing with general market pieces being 200+ years old? Tks.
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 07-21-2017 09:48 AM
For me, a split or repair is a deal breaker. Monogram removals, too. I would send it back. Small dents and scratches I can live with and if they are small enough, I don't even mind them at all. Indeed it's a case by case basis. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 07-21-2017 01:11 PM
Since you are very new to to the world of antique silver.....
What was your qualifying criteria? IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 07-21-2017 01:58 PM
It depends on the individual object and on the category of object. Some categories of object are almost always damaged. I'm much more likely to forgive 1850s hair combs made of thin coin silver a small split or even a missing tine, than to forgive the same flaws in a thick 1870s sterling comb. I don't mind a skillful repair on an 18th c cast sugar tongs, which are brittle and break very easily, but I would prefer forged tongs to have no damage or repairs. However, if the damage is disclosed, brings the price down considerably, and doesn't affect the object's function, or it's a quick, inexpensive repair, and if the object is otherwise delightful, I will often buy it. Sometimes that's the only way I can afford something rare and beautiful. And then there's the whole category of make-dos: delightfully broken-and-repaired objects. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 07-21-2017 02:28 PM
Also, I often buy things online from blurry photos, taking a chance. I look for things where the seller has no idea what they have and is, for example, selling a piece of 18th century southern coin silver as "vintage 1930s." I've gotten some amazing deals that way, but from time to time I guess wrong and end up with something that's damaged or turns out to actually be what the seller says it is. That's not always the seller's fault--obviously it's not at all the seller's fault when the object turns out to be as represented, and not really their fault either when they didn't notice damage because they're not familiar enough with silver (or whatever) to know what damage to look for. I figure win some, lose some. If I feel they were trying to cheat me I'll return it, but otherwise I'll keep it, or sell it (representing it truthfully and disclosing any damage), or pass it on to a friend who needs a ladle, or donate it to my favorite charity thrift shop. A couple of years ago I bought a pair of tongs for very little money that were listed as "VICTORIAN BRITISH STERLING SILVER HB ETCHED FLORAL SUGAR TONGS." When they arrived I saw I'd guessed right--the mark was Hester Bateman's. They're in great shape except the monogram, which was very rubbed--maybe an attempt to remove it? I would probably not have chosen to buy tongs with a partially removed monogram, but the price was great and I'm keeping them, at least until a pair of perfect Hester Bateman tongs for practically no money walks into my life. IP: Logged |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 07-21-2017 04:34 PM
Since you are very new to to the world of antique silver..... "a qualified silversmith" What was your qualifying criteria? long established history of quality work and recommendation from local higher-end collector. IP: Logged |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 07-21-2017 05:05 PM
Polly - thank you for your reply and feedback. I had read the thread of your ladle find and repair and was inspired. Actually was one of the reasons I made this post because you obviously spent some money on taking it from it's found state to wonderfully restored. I have learned quite a bit in my short time collecting and am trying to understand the thought process of collectors when coming across items that are in less than ideal condition. I know an adjustment is made that is subjective based on a number of factors which I guess has to be learned over time. For me the thrill is in the hunt and even with my limited knowledge have found improperly identified items or excellent opportunities where the seller doesn't know it's collectible. On the flip side I've missed out on the same by more knowledgeable collectors swooping in and outbidding me at the last moment. I tend to have a pretty good eye for things and it's a shame this has a split because it is a pretty ladle. There will be others eventually. If it's one thing I've learned: there is a lot of silver out there...
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 07-21-2017 10:51 PM
While a better piece is always to be desired, I have any number of ugly ducklings. I buy things as documents and, as with old letters and other ephemeral bits, a few folds or tears do not discourage my interest. The fact that I have church mouse resources against an unreasonable appetite plays the obvious role in my collecting habits, as well. Perhaps, with a generous purse and a different motivation, I would have followed a more discriminating path. IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 07-22-2017 07:42 AM
My 2 cents, as damage goes that is pretty minor and a straight forward repair. A split at the handle bowl junction would be a deal killer. It's a handsome ladle and I'd love to own it. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 07-22-2017 07:36 PM
Thanks for the kind words, cbc. In the case of my probably provincial Irish ladle, I bought it in a charity auction, so I wouldn't have had the choice of sending it back without being a total--what's a polite way to put it? disagreeable individual?. Not that I wanted to return it. The smith who did the repair was agleopar himself, Rob Butler of Butler Silver. (Scott, am I allowed to say that? Apologies if not!) Silver's spot price was higher then, and the price of ladles generally has fallen too, but the cost of the repair did not seem over the top to me, especially since it was rendering something beautiful and rare usable again. Not that I use it very often; my go-to ladles are a Wood & Hughes gadroon pattern for soup and, believe it or not, waffle batter; and a George Sharp gothic ball pattern for punch. But Rob's repair made it safe to use and likely to last another century, assuming whoever ends up with it after I'm gone doesn't melt it down. Sorry, I'm rambling. Anyway, in the case of your ladle, I would talk to Rob about repairing it--he's sure to do a great job--and if you still think the cost of repair is too high, send it back. Scott, I hope I'm not violating policy by plugging Rob here as a satisfied customer! If I am, please snip. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 07-22-2017 10:21 PM
I love talking with silversmiths about their work perhaps because I am a such a klutz with doing anything with my hands. My mother even warned my wife some 55 years ago that I could not work with my hands. It is still somewhat true today. I had a great time talking to a silversmith at a recent antique show where she recounted her first experience in the field of metal work as a welder and her later entry into the smithsmithing business. My class of welding and other lab work in engineering school many years ago ago convinced me to go to law school and become a patent attorney. It was a good choice, but I must admit I still love to have things repaired by someone skilled with their hands, sometimes regardless of cost. It really is a gift that can be enjoyed by others. I am rambling also but I think the cost of repair is almost always worth the price because of the enjoyment it brings for years after. IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 07-23-2017 01:35 PM
In general I am not interested in objects with damage as severe as cracks or heavy wear or deep dents. Perhaps I might make an exception if there is something of such beauty that I would be willing to pay for its professional repair and then make a note for any future owners of that repair, but it would have to be an object of such beauty and rarity that I knew I would never have another chance to own one and if the price were deeply, deeply discounted below what one in good condition would go for. IP: Logged |
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cbc58 Posts: 333 |
posted 07-24-2017 02:25 PM
I appreciate everyone's feedback and point of view. Beauty and value is in the eye of the beholder and to each their own. Being fairly new to this and watching what comes up for sale - I know that shell ladles are more scarce than regular ones - and condition varies greatly. I was ultimately able to get very small credit (less than 10%) and have decided to keep it - looking at it somewhat like a classic car. I'd rather have one not running that can eventually be fixed up than not have one at all -- and if something better comes along (or I hit the lottery) then upgrade at that point. Seasoned collectors with connections and more knowledge surely will think differently - but aside from a small split it's in not too bad shape for being 218 years old.
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 08-16-2017 11:58 AM
Here's a piece I bought FOR the repair, which I found charming. A pair of sugar tongs by George Wintle or Gabriel Wirgman, London, 1791: [This message has been edited by Polly (edited 08-16-2017).] IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 08-16-2017 12:00 PM
(Was that clear? I meant, I bought the tongs because I found the careful, old repair charming.) IP: Logged |
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 08-16-2017 01:14 PM
I can understand that. That's really cool how they patched that. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 08-16-2017 01:42 PM
Polly you are a real collector. Those squiggly brackets on the repair are really an innovative design from an obviously skilled silversmith. I love your purchase. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 08-16-2017 02:09 PM
Thank you! IP: Logged |
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Hose_dk Posts: 400 |
posted 10-29-2017 02:10 PM
I buy a lot of damaged silver. I don't mind. I am not a seller or dealer so I buy for pleasure. I know that my damaged items are impossible to sell, but history is important for me. Read this - it starts with nice silver but there are a few damaged. Nice and floral the case is I don't care. Its my money, its my interest. Therefore I decide. IP: Logged |
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