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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Silver Jewelry
 Hungarian silver coin bracelet
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| Author | Topic: Hungarian silver coin bracelet |
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lydia Posts: 4 |
posted 05-14-2006 05:04 AM
  
[26-1051] Hi there. I was recently given this bracelet and wonder if anyone can help with further identification. The maker could be Gustav Alexander Sohlman G.A.S and I think that is an Hungarian dog's head with a 3 and an A. The two oval marks look like heads? with a V stamped below, within the oval. I would love some more information. The coins feature St George and a boat on the other side. ?? IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 05-14-2006 10:35 AM
Hi Lydia, Welcome to the forum. Any chance you could enlarge the pictures of the marks, which are too small to read? There seems to be another mark to the right of the clasp. What is it? What makes you believe the bracelet is Hungarian? Also, we usually ask new members to tell us a bit about themselves and their interest in silver. Tom [This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 05-14-2006).] IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 05-14-2006 11:36 AM
Based on your description, I would say the mark is that used on small silver articles in Austria 1866-1922, with the "3" representing the third silver standard of .800 and "A" the code for the Vienna assay office. Given that, then "G.A.S." is almost certainly the large and prolific jewelry firm of Georg Adam Schied, best known for their enamel work. Googling "Georg Adam Schied" should turn up plenty of information. Hope this helps! IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 05-14-2006 06:56 PM
A close-up of the coins might help as well -- I can't identify them from these photos, but they don't appear to be Austrian. I agree on the Vienna 1886-1922 identification for the rightmost mark, but I can't identify the two small head marks as visible in these photos either, so a more detailed photo of those would help, as previously suggested. [This message has been edited by FWG (edited 05-14-2006).] IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 05-14-2006 07:40 PM
Well, I managed to sort of identify the coins -- which aren't coins, which is why I didn't find them at first. They're St. George tokens or medals for the protection of travelers at sea. The motto on the side with the ship is INTEMPTE SECVRITAS, and on the side with St. George it appears to be S:GEORG:EQVITVM PTRN. This doesn't exactly match any of the examples I found, but there are many variations. Unfortunately I found none with an attributed source of production or date. The design is reportedly based on a gold ducat minted in Kremnitz, Hungary prior to 1800, but these are one of many later variations produced as medals. These are most likely silver, given that the mountings are, but there are base metal versions with a silver wash as well. IP: Logged |
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lydia Posts: 4 |
posted 05-14-2006 10:17 PM
Well I managed to get these today.... I can just make out a roman V in the ovals next to the GAS mark.
IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 05-15-2006 09:38 AM
I'm afraid I still can't identify the small oval marks; the closest I could get is that they look similar to early 19th-century Parisian fineness marks, which doesn't seem to fit with the rest. The image of the ship, BTW, is supposed to represent Christ sleeping peacefully while two apostles are panicking in the storm. IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 05-15-2006 09:51 AM
Looking again, in the first of the three new photos I can see the V (it helps if the photo is rotated 180), and it doesn't look like so much like a head. Here's the best I could do enhancing it: IP: Logged |
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hello Posts: 200 |
posted 05-15-2006 11:04 AM
A light polishing of the marks might make them more visible for pictures, then edit one of your posts and replace a picture. IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 05-15-2006 11:18 AM
The close-ups confirm Blackstone's conclusion: 800 silver, small items, Vienna assay office, 1886-1922. However, it occurred to me that the medals might be of a different date than the clasp. I cannot find anything in Tardy to id the oval marks. Tom IP: Logged |
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lydia Posts: 4 |
posted 05-15-2006 03:47 PM
Many thanks for all your replies. I especially like the description of Jesus asleep in the boat. <<If only I could be so relaxed towards life>> I am very pleased with my bracelet and spend far too long day dreaming about it's history...what Vienna was like, what the maker was like and how it got to New Zealand!! I will continue to try and identify the polished ovals. I wonder if Georg Adam Scheid used the medals purely because his name is George to? Thanks again. ------------------ Linda Price at home who used to collect glass IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 05-16-2006 12:32 PM
My first thought was that the marking in each ovals was a crown. If so, you would need to rotate the last photo 180 degrees to orient them with the points on top and the base at the bottom.  IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 05-16-2006 03:12 PM
I just tried that for curiosity's sake, and I still didn't see them as crowns.  There seems to be something going on at the sides; I see them (in the orientation shown in the last image, which I posted as an edit of the original image, and aligned using the incuse letter) as possible insects or crabs or something of the sort. The |V| might actually by a |Y|, and there might even be a second character (|L|?).But that's as much as I can do from the images.IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 05-17-2006 12:38 PM
OK, I don't want to suggest that this is what it is, but if you look at p.31 in the platinum section of Tardy's Poinçons d'or et de platine, 12th edition, there was a French platinum mark 1910-1912 that looks like, from his figure, what I'm seeing in these oval marks. Unless the lighting is rather odd this piece doesn't look like platinum to me, but that at least shows more or less what I see in these marks. IP: Logged |
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Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 05-17-2006 02:00 PM
This is not a platinum bracelet. It is silver. From the pictures, I can't make head or tail of the oval marks, but could they be the French swan import marks? IP: Logged |
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lydia Posts: 4 |
posted 05-18-2006 03:23 AM
Maybe the V is for the De Vinci code?? Seriously though, thank you all so much for your effort and input. I know the platinum marks look similar but definitely a silver piece. Also the mark looks crab like and also like the french weevil although I know the oval dosn't fit. Do silversmiths sometimes get the hallmark wrong? I am trying to jig up my magnification for more photos because....I have found another mark...it looks incomplete on the other side of the clasp. It looks like an insect with four holes spaced on its body. The pattern is repeated without definite borders although there is a zig-zag "bar" between them. I thought it was just a palimset marking, but maybe not. Thanks again...I only have access to the web rather than books at this stage. IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 05-18-2006 10:12 AM
That sounds like a French bigorne countermark. And although I seem to have missed it before, from 1864-93 there was an import mark of an insect in an oval, virtually identical to the platinum mark I happened across yesterday while looking for something else. If the character in the mark that looked like a V or Y is actually the assay office symbol, as seems likely, then it appears to me to be the symbol of Albi. See Tardy (in the 1985 edition the assay office symbols are p.201-2, with Albi at the top of 202, the import mark is p.206, the bigornes 212-17). So you have a Hungarian maker in .800 silver, with the piece then imported into France. Sorry I didn't get this sooner, since it seems I did more or less recognize the design of the mark, but I just haven't handled that much French silver. [This message has been edited by FWG (edited 05-18-2006).] IP: Logged |
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