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tline3open  Invitation to a Treasure Hunt

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Author Topic:   Invitation to a Treasure Hunt
Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 09-29-2007 07:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Responding to Rian on another thread got me to thinking about three collections of silver literature that have vanished. Of the three, I knew two of them. One was somebody I corresponded with.

I will give each a separate post.

The goal here is to find these collections and get them back in the swim of silver world.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 09-29-2007 07:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The first is a motherload of data on silver from the 19th century into the 1970's. Edmond Hogan began working at International Silver in 1918. He told me that when IS started thowing out all the records of its predecessors, in 1919, he dumpster dived them. The records he saved 88 years ago are our only link to 19th century patterns and productions of the many, many companies that made up IS.

In the 1970's Ed wrote a couple of books on IS work. He also began selling photocopies of the records he had. These had all the drawbacks of photocopying 35 years ago: splotches, dingy, etc. But they were a record of the production and practices of many silver makers.

AIR, Ed ceased to advertize sometime in the early 1980's. Online searching for him turns up his books and nothing else. Neither the public library or historical society in Meriden seem to have them. Or know where they are.

Treasure hunters, here is the challenge. Find out when Ed Hogan passed on, and who his heirs were. Then see if any of them have this invaluable trove of silver documents.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 09-29-2007 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ken Diebel was the first researcher into silverplate patterns. He published a monumental work in the 70's that is the best ever written on the subject. His research partner was Fredna Davis.

Ken was a southern gentleman and racountier. Being with him was a delight. When I did shows in Dallas, we would dine together at least once. He was always a joy to be with. Ken graduated from college in 1927. In the 30's he became interested in silverplated flatware and began researching it. In the 80's and 90's he was a speaker at luncheons on the subject of silver.

Ken had assembled an enormous assortment of silver memoribilia. He also told me that he had a forthcoming study on commercial silver. And he had information about the relationships between silver companies in the 19th century.

He would have been born in about 1905. Other than his books, I can find no online information on him.

Ken lived with his wife in Dallas into the 1990's. His archive seems to have dissapeared.

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wev
Moderator

Posts: 4084
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 09-29-2007 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The SS Death index lists an Edmund Hogan, b 5 Jan 1903, died in Meriden on 13 Dec 1992.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 09-29-2007 07:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clayne Crousen ran the Silver Chest in Denver until the late 1980's. He had one of the first silverplate matching services. His system was to replate everything. I met him twice. Clayne ran the whole operation out of his basement in north east Denver.

Clayne was a colorfull person. His career began with managing a chain of beauty salons in Wyoming and Montana. After being shot several times by disatisfied clients, he moved to Denver. And found a quieter way to make a living.

In the mid 1970's, Clayne had heart problems and moved to the Carolinas. A lower elevation was called for. His wife was a cousin of the R&B owners.

He had a trove of silver information that he had gathered in the 20's and 30's. Which has vanished into thin air.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 09-29-2007 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wev, thanks so much. This is a clear movement in the right direction. We now know that 15 years ago Ed Hogan passed away.

Next step is to find out where his papers went.

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wev
Moderator

Posts: 4084
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 09-29-2007 08:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clayne Crousen (b 16 May 1914) died in July 1985 in Henderson NC.

There is no SS record of a death for Ken Diebel .

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 09-29-2007 08:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are amazing Wev. How do you do this? And the patents?

And I mispelled Ken's last name. It should be 'Deibel'. Sorry about that. Growing up with the Chicago Tribune's simplified spelling does funny things to one's ability to spell.

[This message has been edited by Dale (edited 09-29-2007).]

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wev
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Posts: 4084
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 09-29-2007 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just the last vestiges of a classical education and a misspent youth.

No likely entries for Mr. Deibel, either.

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wev
Moderator

Posts: 4084
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 09-30-2007 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I believe I have discovered Edmund Hogan's great granddaughter. If it is confirmed, I will see if she or the family has any knowledge of the lost materials. I'll keep you posted.

[This message has been edited by wev (edited 09-30-2007).]

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 09-30-2007 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wev the Wizard!
Silver Sleuth of the Forums!
Great as always.
Jersey

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 09-30-2007 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great work Wev. Your access to information is unsurpassed.

So we are in possesion of some more information. That Ed Hogan passed away in 1992 at almost age 89. Is there anyone here who could find his obituary with listing of survivors? It is not online, that I can see. This would probably involve going to a library near Meriden and looking at microfilm. Anyone in that area?

And is there anyone near Henderson NC? Twenty two years later may be too late, but might be worth a try.

Is there anyone here in Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex? If there is, and given how silver sells in Texas, there should be at least one SMPer from the metroplex, could you please inquire at antique shows and shops about Ken Deibel. He would be over 100 years old now. Ask about Fredna Davis also.

Does anyone here know of other collections of direct silver documents that have gone missing?

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wev
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Posts: 4084
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 09-30-2007 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fredna Davis died in Dallas on 15 Jan 2003 at age 91.

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bascall

Posts: 1626
Registered: Nov 99

iconnumber posted 09-30-2007 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bascall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From the Social Security Death Records, it looks like your Kenneth K Deibel may have passed away in Louisville, KY on 3 May 2002. This gentleman was born on 3 August 1913 in Louisville and appears to have also resided in Dallas, TX.

[This message has been edited by bascall (edited 09-30-2007).]

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bascall

Posts: 1626
Registered: Nov 99

iconnumber posted 09-30-2007 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bascall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have the telephone number for Fredna's youngest brother. And I talked to Fredna's niece. She was familiar with the book and so on, but said her dad would be the best person to talk to about it. If anyone would like to make that call, I would be happy to pass his name and number along.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 10-01-2007 12:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Bacall, great work. Since I knew Fredna, I would be willing to make the call. Maybe Scott could contact you and get the number to send to me. Hope this leads somewhere.

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bascall

Posts: 1626
Registered: Nov 99

iconnumber posted 10-01-2007 12:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bascall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That sounds fine to me. Fredna's niece was very easy to talk to and no doubt her father is much the same.

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11321
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 10-01-2007 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Note: I have provided Dale the info from bascall.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 10-04-2007 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Finally got through to Fredna Davis' brother Paul. Very pleasant person to talk with. He directed me to Fredna's son. I will call him tonight.

He was not aware of what Fredna was working on regarding silver, but said she was alway researching something. He said that her son most likely had all Fredna's papers.

Regarding Ken, Paul knew that 'the lady who sells silver at the Canton flea market' bought his library. But thought she only purchased books. He did not know where the research files were. Ken did not have any survivors. The handling of his estate is a mystery.

We are getting somewhere.

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Tad Hale

Posts: 120
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 10-27-2007 12:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tad Hale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I did antique shows in Dallas in the 1980's I met Noel Turner and in his book the bibliography pages had a lot of early Meriden and International Silver catalog listings. Perhaps he may know the whereabouts of these papers.

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