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tline3open  Gorham A9588???HELP!!!

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Author Topic:   Gorham A9588???HELP!!!
hollyhobbie

Posts: 11
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 10-29-2004 01:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hollyhobbie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
1st I'd like to start out by saying hello & yes, I have researched other posts in regards to my question. Now that I've got that out of the way....

I need help, bad! I've been researching for weeks & have yet to find out what A9588 means. It is inscribed underneath the trademark lion, anchor & G Gorham marks & the word sterling.

I've went through the Carpenter "Gorham" book at library & on the list, just like the one you have in your pdf pub, it defines A as a mark from 1868.

What do the numbers 9588 next to it mean? This is found on a candy? dish that has piercing round the outer rim of it.

If need be, I will post a pic. I just joined 2 minutes ago so, I haven't even got that far. Busy life, things to do, ya know. I will get around to it, if I receive a post back requesting that I do so. But, for now, if anyone is familiar with this mark, I would be so unbelievably appreciative you have NO idea.

Thanks for taking the time to read this & thanks in advance for any/all help.

HH

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Patrick Vyvyan

Posts: 640
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 10-29-2004 06:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick Vyvyan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
from The Owl at The Bridge
[owlbridge.com/gorham_marks.shtml - link gone from the internet].

"Adoption for its products, on 1 May 1868, of the English sterling standard of .925% silver is probably the cause for the addition of a date stamp: Gorham provided a certificate offering a money-back guarantee on the purity of its sterling ware. Pieces without a date stamp predate the guarantee, so someone trying to turn in an undated tea service would have been refused an exchange.

By 1868 the Company had grown large enough and complex enough so that any earlier practice of carrying records in an individual's memory was impractical. Production records were centralized, with costing records and photographs keyed to the production number stamped on a piece.

The numbering system for sterling hollowware (as well as the costing records in ledger books, and file photographs pasted into albums) remained the same until early 1898, at which time new procedures were introduced. In addition to the numbering system the letter 'A' was added as a prefix to indicate sterling production hollowware related to dining. The letters 'B' and 'C' became prefixes for sterling production hollowware for the dressing table (brushes, mirrors, etc.) or the desk or for clothing accessories.

There must have been some confusion in the factory, and some carryover, as the 'A' prefix was for a time applied inappropriately, such as to Martele pieces which were neither sterling (they had a higher silver content) nor production pieces (they were one of a kind). Nevertheless, some early Martele numbered pieces also include the 'A' prefix.

This system using the 'A' prefix was continued until about 1930, when a new system of costing was introduced. After that year, and certainly after 1932, letter prefixes were dropped and number-only production codes were reinstated"


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hollyhobbie

Posts: 11
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 10-29-2004 12:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hollyhobbie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks but, I kind of already had that much from the research thus far.

What I was asking primarily was about the set of numbers next to the A. Does anyone have a clue as to when this series was produced.

Once again, most appreciated for anything anyone can supply, as I am physically challenged & getting out to libraries is somewhat of a hassle.

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Patrick Vyvyan

Posts: 640
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 10-29-2004 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick Vyvyan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can't help with the pattern sequence, but given that the A prefix was used between 1898 and approx 1930 - is there an additional very small symbol anywhere on the piece? This would be the date mark. A list of these symbols

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hollyhobbie

Posts: 11
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 10-30-2004 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hollyhobbie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here are pix of the Gorham A9588 & another piece I have that I thought someone can help with.

It's a small sterling bowl (almost resembles something like an egg bowl but a tad bit larger)

The only thing that I can make out on the underside of it is sterling 377 & the initials J H.

I have searched a sight that has literally thousands of silversmiths & their marks but have come up w/ nothing.

Hopefully someone can help.

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Brent

Posts: 1502
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 11-03-2004 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello,

The style of your bowl is very much of the 1920s to 1940's; simple, vaguely neoclassical, restrained. There are many similar bowls on the market; they were quite popular at the time.

If the bowl were made prior to 1933 or after 1941, it should have a small holloware date code on the bottom. Pre-1933 would be a little picture of something; after 1941 would be a number in a shape. If there is no mark, the bowl likely dates from 1934-1940. There are exceptions to every rule about silver markings, but this, combined with the style of the pieces and the mark, should tell you approximately how old your piece is.

I hope this helps!

Brent

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hollyhobbie

Posts: 11
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 11-03-2004 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hollyhobbie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Brent! You wouldn't happen to know anything about the Gorham? Still looking for any info on it. THX, HH

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Brent

Posts: 1502
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 11-03-2004 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was talking about the Gorham:-). It looks like a low bowl in the picture, right? The date codes apply to Gorham holloware. Some other manufacturers had them as well, but they would be specific to each manufacturer. If the piece does have a date mark, we can pinpoint the date of manufacture; otherwise 1920's-1940's would be about the best you could do.

As for the number 9588, it, like most similar numbers on silverware, is of little usefulness to the average person. Such numbers were mainly used inside the company to denote a particular shape, size or decoration. If you can find a catalog from the time period in question, you MIGHT find your piece listed by the number, or maybe not. Sam Hough, the Gorham archivist, could probably find out exactly when your piece was made, if you are willing to pay for the research. In my opinion, it would not be worth it. Your piece is almost certainly from the first half of the 20th C, mass produced mainly by machine with very little hand work involved, other than the final polishing. I'm afraid it is just a nice little dish, nothing special.

As for the footed bowl, is the J.H bracketed by what looks like "Y"'s on their sides? If so, it is the trademark for John Hasselbring of Brooklyn, NY, founded in 1890 and purchased by Crown Silver, Inc. in 1954. The style of the footed bowl is colonial revival, and could date from anywhere from the late 1910's to the present. I'd guess 1920's.

I hope that clears things up a bit,

Brent

[This message has been edited by Brent (edited 11-03-2004).]

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hollyhobbie

Posts: 11
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 11-03-2004 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hollyhobbie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Brent- YOU'RE A PEACH!!! You have NO idea how happy you just made me. That J.H. was driving me crazy!!! You're a lifesaver!! As far as the Gorham goes, I still have to check out the Rainwater book & take it from there. I went to some antiques shop today to scope out silver for reference, but no luck. Once again thanks a million!!!! smile HH

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hollyhobbie

Posts: 11
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 11-03-2004 06:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hollyhobbie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you very kindly, from one Martin to another, Scott. Best regards, Holly Martin

BTW...what a coincidence! My last name being Martin & my fiance's 1st name being Scott, hence the smp713 e-mail address. Freaky! And check this out...our attorney's name is Martin Scott. Really freaky!

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