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Author Topic:   T.B. Starr & Gorham
Neil

Posts: 4
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 02-26-2005 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Neil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am trying to learn whether Gorham would have allowed a retailer, like T.B. Starr, to sell its products and NOT put the Gorham mark or name on the item,i.e.,allowed T.B. Starr to only put its name on the item.

I know that Gorham made products for T.B. Starr and other companies. Does anyone know, for certain, that retailers were permitted to mark Gorham produced items with only their marks?

Thank you.

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Richard Kurtzman
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Posts: 755
Registered: Aug 2000

iconnumber posted 02-28-2005 10:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Kurtzman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes!

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Neil

Posts: 4
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 03-02-2005 09:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Neil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Richard Kurtzman has said that Gorham certainly allowed retailers like T.B. Starr to sell their products without the Gorham name or mark on the items (and only with the retiler's name or mark). Please give me some details about how Gorham and the retailer's managed to do this.

Thank you

Neil

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Richard Kurtzman
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Registered: Aug 2000

iconnumber posted 03-03-2005 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Kurtzman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the nineteenth century Gorham was primarily a wholesaler. The majority of their production was made to be retailed by others. In some instances, not often, one will find pieces made by them with ONLY the retailers marks. I had one such piece a few weeks ago: a fish slice in the Antique Engraved #1 pattern marked 925 SHREVE CRUMP & LOW.

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Neil

Posts: 4
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 03-03-2005 08:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Neil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for the reply to my question about T.B. Starr and Gorham.
I would like to know how you knew the fish slice was made by Gorham. Did you have a copy of an original catalogue , a copy of the cost record, or some other definitive document?

Also, it is my understanding that Gorham had photo albums made of their products and sent salesmen around the country to sell their products. Did these salesmen sell to retailers who then put their own mark or name on the products?

Finally, I was aware that Gorham primarily sold its plated wares through retailer outlets (other than their own) are you saying that in the 19th century that Gorham did that with their silver ware also? Even though they had their own retail shops?
Thank you.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 03-03-2005 10:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did Gorham have their own retail shops in the 19th century?

Usually we know a maker from a pattern, which is why photos are so important. Even with the mark of a retailer, the known maker can be found. It is not unusual to find patterns with many different retailer marks.

The old catalogs I have seen had line drawings not photographs. Silver is notoriously difficult to photograph. And a line drawing gives details that can be lost in the glare.

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Neil

Posts: 4
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 03-04-2005 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Neil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In 1876, Gorham had a retail store in NYC at 37 Union Square as well as a wholesale one downtown. It also had shops in San Francisco in 1879 & Chicago in 1882.

Gorham also had very detiled photographic albums of its wares that clearly showed the items for sale. These albums are at Brown University archives.

Gorham made many items as "specials", that is one of a kind. So if a special has a retailer's mark you can't identify it by form or pattern(especially if there is no production number or other clue). If that is the case, can it be substantiated that a customer could go to a retailer in NYC, order an item, have the retailer order it manufactured by Gorham and then sell it with only the retailer's mark or name?

Thanks for any help.
neil

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