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tline3open  Unmarked Shiebler Lorgnette

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Author Topic:   Unmarked Shiebler Lorgnette
hello

Posts: 200
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 03-13-2006 01:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hello     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[09-0069]

I think it would be pretty hard to argue that this is not Shiebler. I have found almost all the motifs on other Shiebler items(especially on flatware known as Applied and sometimes called Japanese. I am not sure if there is a proper term for it). It is 10 1/8 inches long(closed), 1 1/8 inch at the wides point, 1/4 inch thick.

I personally think (correct me if I'm wrong) that Shiebler may not have marked items at the preference of the retail customer. For instance a jewellery store would be the most likely place(?) for someone to purchase a brooch, or in this case lorgnette, and the absence of a mark might have allowed the store to take "credit." I read in last month's (February 2006) Magazine Antiques that Shiebler did not patent their design for Etruscan, Homeric, or whichever you prefer. Plus, many of Shiebler's items are pretty unique in and of themselves. Any thoughts?

[This message has been edited by hello (edited 03-13-2006).]

I should also note that the nose piece appears to be either gold-filled or 10-14k gold

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 03-13-2006 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Would a lorgnette have been sold by a jeweler or an optician? I notice that eyeglasses frequently are not marked on the metal but come in a marked box. Usually there is the name of the optician on the box. Is the glass a prescription type?

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hello

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Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 03-13-2006 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hello     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am not sure, but I have 20/20 vision and when I look through them they magnify and make things blurry. They look original to the piece(without being an expert, the scans make them look good but the are scuffed on the top edge from coming in and out)

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salmoned

Posts: 336
Registered: Jan 2005

iconnumber posted 03-13-2006 04:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for salmoned     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice piece. Almost any optician can put the lenses in a machine to determine the prescription, most will do this for free. I would consider that information worthwhile to add to your documentation on this item.

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Ulysses Dietz
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Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 03-14-2006 07:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spectacles and pince-nez were sold by opticians, but such luxurious things as silver and gold lorgnettes would, I think, have been sold by jewelers. The lenses are most likely simply magnifiers, given the situations in which they would have been used (reading menus, opera programs, etc).

Whoever made this lorgnette, it is splendid.

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hello

Posts: 200
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 03-14-2006 02:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hello     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It seems you are correct about the magnification. I only tested them to look far away, not close up, and close up it works well for magnification. My real curiosity however, lies in the existence of other pieces of possible unmarked shiebler. It seems they had no problem letting their competitors sell for them(tiffany, gorham, etc), I wonder if they had no problem leaving certain pieces unmarked. I know there is one other example in the "most interesting post" which helps my belief. The cost in rendering a fake this close to what shiebler produced would make it unlikely(I would think) that someone is trying to fake it. By the time you made all the exact(and I mean exact, I've compared a few items (beetle, frog, spider, but especially the bird because I found the best close up of it) and they are identical to marked examples.) you would have been better off to have had shiebler make it for you. Or not? If anyone has close ups of any of the creatures on marked shiebler items that appear on this lorgnette, I will post closeups of that particular creature for comparison's sake.

[This message has been edited by hello (edited 03-14-2006).]

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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1768
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 03-16-2006 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, that is an astonishing piece.

It is definitely Shiebler. I have seen many of these motifs on signed pieces.

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hello

Posts: 200
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 03-16-2006 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hello     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the help, compliments all. I have never seen an unmarked piece this good, and was wondering if any one else has. I felt "obligated" to share it (thereby putting in the permanent collection) because I don't know if anyone else has seen such a definitive piece that uses so many motifs from shiebler at once. I haven't seen that much shiebler as far as the real exotic pieces go, and am beginning to think that I haven't seen much(the internet being my only real accesible resource beside books, magazines,)

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 03-16-2006 07:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In general, the unmarked but clearly attributable pieces I have seen were sold through channels outside of regular silver trade venues. Which is a very Germanic sentance.

In silverplate there are a number of items that clearly appear to be Pairpoint or MBC, but have either the marks of other trades or are unmarked. Lamp parts and fittings are particularly prone to this. The lamp font usually associated with the patterns Arcadian/ Assyrian Head is one such. In serving dishes it is found with the MBC mark but in other types it is not. And there are some writing implements, particularly 1847 and Reed and Barton Pearl type designs that have non silver marks. Which probably indicates they were made up for and sold by stationers.

I am generalizing here from specific examples to a general practice, which may or may not be a valid way of reasoning. However, as a business practice it makes a great deal of sense.

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hello

Posts: 200
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 04-10-2006 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hello     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know why I didn't think of this before but here is more relevant info to the piece. It is monogrammed on the edge with what is as far as I can make out "M. H. Laughlin." I thought it was interesting because you don't always see last names included in mono's.

The only other thing I know about it is that it originated in Mississippi according to the seller.

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hello

Posts: 200
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 04-30-2006 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hello     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just did a little research and discovered that a M H Laughlin resided in Charleston , Tallahatchie, Mississippi as well as a W C Laughlin. They both appear on the 1910 United States Federal Census Record on the second "beat?" She (M H) was 37 at the time, and he (W C) was 38. (W C) shows on the 1900 United States Federal Census Record but not (M H), assume because they are not married?

This all fits in pretty well with the time period of the piece. Anyone have any ideas on how to do further research? This will not "officially" count as provenance I know, b/c I can't really prove it, but I more or less want to know what kind of person would buy such a thing smile.

[This message has been edited by hello (edited 04-30-2006).]

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