SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
American Sterling Silver Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  American Sterling Silver
tline3open  matches holder

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   matches holder
Raf Steel

Posts: 94
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 03-31-2006 06:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raf Steel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For some time I have a matches holder by Tiffany, it is fully marked, and it has a 'T' for I believe Charles Tiffany (1898?). Does anyone know the pattern name of this item?


(reads "STERLING 925-1000 T", sorry for the poor picture quality)

The backside is just plain, with the same border.
Raf

IP: Logged

William Hood

Posts: 271
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 03-31-2006 10:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for William Hood     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The incuse "T" indicates the piece was made during that period of time between the death of Edward C. Moore, chief designer and head of the silver department, and the death of Charles L. Tiffany, president of Tiffany & Co., i.e., between 1891 and 1902. Most items like this match safe did not have a pattern name, only a number. The pattern number is the one to the left of the word "MAKERS"; the number to the right is the order number.

IP: Logged

outwest

Posts: 390
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 04-01-2006 12:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for outwest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It seems a very forward pattern for that time (Tiffany usually was). I have a little match safe, too and it even has the original hand dipped matches in it. They're very cute little hand made wooden matches.
You match safe is a very nice piece.

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 04-01-2006 01:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suspect the design would have been considered American Indian when new. Probably today it would by 'Native American' style. Great piece, thanks for sharing.

IP: Logged

William Hood

Posts: 271
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 04-01-2006 11:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for William Hood     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Outwest, you were no doubt thinking that this was an Art Deco design, but I agree with Dale that it is Native American. During this time period, Tiffany's art director, Paulding Farnham, was designing some of his greatest pieces in this style--such as the Cincinnati Art Museum - Tiffany Loving Cup.

IP: Logged

outwest

Posts: 390
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 04-01-2006 01:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for outwest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ah, yes, I was thinking it art deco. But, it certainly looks Native American,too. Thanks for the link.

IP: Logged

Raf Steel

Posts: 94
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 04-02-2006 08:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raf Steel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was thinking of the more stylised version of the art nouveau, which would be early. I'm glad to know it is native american in style, this makes it very interesting and the only piece in my collection with such an influence!: I based my date of 1898 on the pattern numbers and dates in the Carpenter book (p.261). Is it 'safe' to use these number/date relations or not?
Would this have been a design by Farnham? Or did he leave the small items in the care of the unknown designers of the firm?

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 04-02-2006 01:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In old catalogs, frequently smoking related items are in a separate section from the general silver items. Which might suggest that this was retailed by tobbacanists.

In general, the design of an item depends on the 'line' it is part of. Smoking accessories include match safes, cigar holders, humidors, smoking stands, lighters and ashtrays. In any particular line there is a standard design motif which is then adapted to the particular needs and sizes of an item. So, no doubt, Farnyham would have paid attention to all things, including the smallest.

IP: Logged

William Hood

Posts: 271
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 04-02-2006 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for William Hood     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Raf Steel, I am not sure where or how Carpenter obtained the hollowware data he tabulated on pp. 260-261 (1978 ed.). I tend to think of them as approximations. Also, a pattern number was assigned when the pattern was first designed/made. A piece in a given pattern made much later will still bear the original pattern number. It gets even less precise with flatware. An incuse (punched) "date letter" such as "T" indicates the time range when the piece was actually made. But a raised date letter (i.e., one incorporated in the die) indicates when the die was made, not when the piece was actually stamped using this die. I can vouch for the fact that in the table re flatware on p. 261, some of the pattern numbers don't match the dates at all.

Dale, Tiffany & Co. began to retail its flatware in select jewelry stores only in the 1950s, and I am not sure that they ever retailed hollowware outside their own stores. (Tiffany's first domestic outlet outside NYC--in San Francisco--was not opened until 1963.) Am certain they would never have permitted anything to be sold by a tobacconist.

There are no records to substantiate how "hands-on" Farnham was, but it seems likely that as art director he greatly influenced what lesser designers produced.

IP: Logged

Raf Steel

Posts: 94
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 04-03-2006 11:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raf Steel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mr. Hood and Dale, thank you both for your elaborate responses. The more you know about silver, the more you are left in doubts ...

IP: Logged

Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 04-05-2006 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By the way, does anyone know when such match safes, or Vesta cases, went out of use (i.e. when safety matches were introduced?). The design of this certainly makes sense for the dates suggested by the T mark. It coincides with all of the Indian material produced by Tiffany, both silver and jewelry, for the World's Fairs from 1893-1904. Aside from the form, the aesthetic of this would have had a very limited shelf-life, unlike some Tiffany things (such as "English King" flatware, which lasted forever).

IP: Logged

doc

Posts: 712
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 04-05-2006 01:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The change didn't happen with the invention of the safety match, which occurred in the 1850's, because you still needed a place to strike them. The real change occurred at the turn of the century when matchbooks were invented. Originally patented in 1889, they didn't become readily available until the late 1890's-there was a patent fight between the original patent holder and Diamond Match, which also claimed to have invented them.

IP: Logged

outwest

Posts: 390
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 04-06-2006 01:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for outwest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's my silver enameled advertising match case (sorry, haven't polished it lately). Is it called a vesta, too? It is 1860-85. I know this because the other side says, "Compliments of John Swasey Co, etc." and he was in business during that time (married Miles Greenwoods daughter).

These are what I would call safety matches since the silver box incorporates a striker.


I've always thought it was terribly cute with the original hand dipped matches and the smooth wood sticks. When I was a kid about 10 I actually lit one of the matches and oh, boy, did I catch hell for that!

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 04-06-2006 01:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is my understanding that match holders of this type are still made today. They are used by sportsmen who might need to light a fire. Even though book matches were available, there exists a need for a safe dry container for matches.

IP: Logged

outwest

Posts: 390
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 04-06-2006 01:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for outwest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a waterproof match holder that we always take backpacking and camping. It is a small plastic tube with a waterproof rubber screw on seal. You can also buy wax dipped wooden matches that are water proof. These little cases weren't water proof though. Weren't they just a stylish carrying box?

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2020 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices