SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
American Sterling Silver Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  American Sterling Silver
tline3open  Tiffany Spoons - Gold

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Tiffany Spoons - Gold
DSchwa8473

Posts: 4
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 07-30-2005 10:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DSchwa8473     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-0569]

Hi!

I am new to this forum and hope someone will be able to help me...

I have the opportunity to aquire two Tiffany and Co. 18K gold spoons in the San Lorenzo pattern, but I have not been able to find much information. I am a new collector of Tiffany flatware and can't find a thing on San Lorenzo being produced in gold. I would like to do some research on the history...does anyone have an idea where to find this information? The spoons may be of historical significance. Any help is appreciated. I have left a message with T & Co, but time is of the essence.

Thanks so much for any assistance...
Diana S, FL USA

IP: Logged

venus

Posts: 282
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 07-30-2005 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They did make one of the 4 patterns of this pattern in a gold wash. I will email you the link.

IP: Logged

DSchwa8473

Posts: 4
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 07-30-2005 05:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DSchwa8473     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Venus-

Thanks for the post and the email. I have checked replacements and found the pattern; unfortunately, when I called them they told me they don't deal with solid gold. I have searched the web and have yet to find one word written about an 18K solid piece in that pattern.

Any ideas where one would find out information about solid gold flatware?

Thanks again-
Diana S.

IP: Logged

Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1768
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 07-30-2005 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have seen solid gold flatware from several makers, including Tiffany, Gorham, and Dominick & Haff. Mostly coffee spoons, but some teaspoons and even a tea strainer. I think it was just made for wealthier customers to buy as gifts or special keepsakes, rather than for daily use. Probably much of the solid gold flatware was owned in relation to 50th (golden) anniversaries.

[This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 07-30-2005).]

IP: Logged

Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11377
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 07-30-2005 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What makes you so sure they are 18k gold?

I agree with Paul. The only complete "solid gold" pattern I have ever seen was Olympian and it was marked 14k. I believe 18k would be a bit soft to use for flatware. As it was the 14k set seemed like it was wearing faster than it should. I am sure it was special order. The individual who had the set died many years ago and since it has never come to market, I am guessing it was inherited.

I have seen sterling serving pieces with heavy vermeil marked 18k. I have had to wonder where the sterling mark went to and who added the 18k mark? And then why? eek

To be sure they are solid gold without damaging the items there is only one test to use and it is the specific gravity test.

IP: Logged

wev
Moderator

Posts: 4095
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 07-30-2005 07:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I sort of wondered why "...time is of the essence"?

Do you have some sort of dead line to meet?

IP: Logged

Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 08-01-2005 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tiffany & Co. didn't made any flatware pattern routinely in gold. However, it would make any pattern in gold if you ordered it and paid extra. Newark, where Tiffany's flatware was made from 1894 onward, was also the center of gold refining for the jewelry industry, and gold was easily accessible to them. Tiffany did produce stock sets of things like coffee spoons for 50th anniversary gifts, and there are known coffee sets, usually one of a kind, designed for special anniversaries, etc. The two spoons you have were possibly part of a set of six, or perhaps even a pair made for a couple on their 50th anniversary. 18 karat would not be unlikely for two spoons that wouldn't get much use; such ceremonial gifts became instant heirlooms and would not necessarily suffer the usual wear and tear.

IP: Logged

DSchwa8473

Posts: 4
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 08-01-2005 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DSchwa8473     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks to all of you for your responses. I have come to the cautious conclusion that these were custom made as a present or part of a set. I really appreciate the response!

In regards to time is of the essense...I alluded in my first post that I have the opportunity to acquire the set; as I do not have it yet, it could still be aquired by someone else! smile

Thanks again for all your assistance.
Diana S.
FL, USA

IP: Logged

Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1768
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 08-01-2005 10:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anybody have a copy of the latest Maine Antique Digest handy? In one of the featured auctions, an extensive Tiffany solid gold dinner service (I think with some Gorham gold items mixed in) sold for something like $1.3M.

IP: Logged

blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 08-01-2005 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is evidence that Tiffany did indeed make 18 Kt. gold flatware around the time San Lorenzo was introduced (1916), at least on special order. I’ve saved a Sotheby’s catalogue from 1994 not because there’s a chance I’ll ever come across anything like it in my appraisals, but because of its sheer extravagance. (And I think this is the one you mean, Paul.)

Commissioned from Tiffany’s in the early 20th century by Elbert H. Gray (1846-1927), founder of U.S. Steel, it’s a full dinner service for eighteen, including: dinner knives & forks, entrée knives & forks, fish knives & forks, soup spoons, oyster forks, salad forks, fruit knives, ice cream spoons & forks, teaspoons, coffee spoons, butter spreaders, service plates, dinner plates, dessert plates, cake plates, bread plates, ice cream dishes, finger bowls, nut dishes, salt cellars, water goblets, champagne goblets, cake stand, ice cream plate & server, fruit bowl, bon-bon dishes, tea set (coffeepot, teapot, creamer, sugar bowl & tray) 6 candlesticks, cigar lighters, ashtrays, grape stand & shears and centerpiece . . . plus various serving pieces. 566 pieces total, weighing 270 pounds . . . all in solid 18 karat gold.

The service remained in the family (illegally secreted after the Gold Reserve Act of 1934, which forbade private ownership of such substantial gold items) unknown to historians until its appearance at the 1994 sale.

Magnas inter oper inops.

IP: Logged

carlaz

Posts: 239
Registered: Jan 2001

iconnumber posted 08-16-2005 01:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for carlaz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just out of curiosity, are the spoons in question actually marked 18K? I did not see in any responses from the original question posting that they were indeed marked 18k?

IP: Logged

DSchwa8473

Posts: 4
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 08-16-2005 10:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DSchwa8473     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, the spoons are clearly marked Tiffany & Co. 18K gold (followed by mark)...and an update - their mine!!
: )
Hurrah!!
Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it!!
Diana
Ocala, FL

IP: Logged

venus

Posts: 282
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 08-18-2005 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
vry nice Diane... So close to me for me to purchase (sigh) but alas sooooo far away. heh Glad you got sucha nice find

lynnda in lake city (told ya I was close) smile

IP: Logged

Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 08-18-2005 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is an 18k gold coffee set, made in 1897 (there are also matching tongs) as a golden wedding anniversary gift for a rich New York couple. It is clearly marked "18k SOLID GOLD" The Judge Gary (as in Gary, Indiana) service was commissioned. And I doubt that ownership of gold objects was ever forbidden--only gold specie or bullion.

This, after searching in Tiffany's archives, proves to have been a unique commission. I am fairly sure that nothing in the silver line was made routinely in gold, but that anything could be made in gold if the client was willing to pay.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2020 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices