SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
American Sterling Silver Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  American Sterling Silver
tline3open  Mismarked Laurel Teaspoon

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Mismarked Laurel Teaspoon
rian

Posts: 169
Registered: Jan 2006

iconnumber posted 01-14-2006 09:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-0870]

Hello, may I join? I use my butter and egg money to collect orphan sterling flatware. I have a early edition of Rainwater and Tere Hagan's book. My favorite present this Christmas was Turner's American Silver Flatware, but it led to a troubling discovery. I am posting a picture of a teaspoon that is marked with Wallace's hallmark and the word sterling. According to Turner this is Rogers Bros. silverplate pattern, Laurel. I have a demitasse spoon in the Owl pattern also marked sterling.

The questions I have --

Are there no markings on the backs of Rogers spoons that identify them?
Is this mis-marking very common?.
How often do experienced dealers and collectors see this?

laurel spoon

hallmark


IP: Logged

tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 01-14-2006 10:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to the forum. Of course you can "join in." It would be good though to label your post with a heading that attracts others to your question. "Mismarked Laurel Teaspoon" will get the attention of those with knowledge of your piece in a way that "testing African bracelet" may not.

Tom

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 01-15-2006 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The mark shown on your spoon is a Wallace one. It appears that in the late 19th century Wallace acquired the rights to some 1847 patterns that were discontinued. Wallace then produced them in sterling. Laurel and Saratoga and Arcadian were the main ones made this way. There is nothing amiss about your spoon. It is later production by another maker using the same dies. Wallace did not produce much of this, as far as I can tell.

1847 offered all of their patterns as available in sterling on special order down into the 1890's at least. I have seen pieces of Vintage and Berkshire that had Meriden Brittania Co sterling marks. This is one of the areas of silver that is not much studied or understood. The 1847 mark for sterling is: STERLING with a profile of an Indian warrior who has a feather pointing down.

Thanks for sharing this wonderfully rare piece with us.

IP: Logged

rian

Posts: 169
Registered: Jan 2006

iconnumber posted 01-15-2006 08:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dale,

Thank-you so much for your information. I have a wonderful family and great friends, but when I try to talk to them about silver, their eyes just glaze over. They try to change the subject or flee. I have no right to complain. This is probably the way I behave when people talk to me about interesting new statistical models or professional sports.

I'm so happy to find a place where people love to talk about silver. I have so much to learn. Thanks again Dale and tmockait for making me feel welcome here.

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 01-15-2006 02:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rian, it is a pleasure to talk about silver. We are so few that a site like SMP becomes a haven.

On Wallace, prior to 1890 the company did not make much flatware. What little I have seen is of poor quality. The company appears to have been a maker of low quantity. Around 1890, Wallace which had been strictly a silverplate maker began to produce sterling. The company took off then.

There is a relationship between Wallace and 1847 that needs exploring. I have seen pieces of Portland and Embossed, both 1847 patterns, with the Wallace mark.

IP: Logged

rian

Posts: 169
Registered: Jan 2006

iconnumber posted 01-15-2006 09:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dale,

What about crown? In Dolan's book and in a piece by Elizabeth Warshawsky in Silver Magazine, crown is listed as one of Wallace's earliest sterling patterns. There is no crown pictured in Turner's book under Wallace sterling, but look under the electroplate listings for Rogers!

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 01-15-2006 11:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, Crown is another possible one. It does exist in both 1847 sterling and Wallace. Trying to make up a list of these is rather difficult as there are not a whole lot of people who are familiar with both plate and sterling patterns. It seems that 1847 dumped a number of their patterns around the year 1890. The only one they seem to have held on to was Newport, which does appear in some 1907 catalogs.

IP: Logged

rian

Posts: 169
Registered: Jan 2006

iconnumber posted 01-16-2006 07:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry, I was too excited to make myself clear. It looks to me as though Crown might have gone the other way--started as Wallace sterling and then sold to Rogers. Turner lists Crown's introduction by Rogers as occurring in 1878. Warshawsky says sterling Crown was introduced by Wallace in 1871. Maybe the business relationship between Wallace and Rogers began with Crown.

IP: Logged

outwest

Posts: 390
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 01-16-2006 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for outwest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rian,

I have been interested in silver for a couple of years, but really didn't understand much about it. People I know also are bored with silver talk. I don't know why, but I find it fascinating. My family thinks I am a little whacked about it. I like to think about all those silversmiths and history. I like American silver because that is what I have the most of and where I have a family history. I keep wishing I could find a friend who would go silver hunting with me, but alas, I am on my own with that. I am so happy to have found this site where I can yack about silver and no one gets annoyed.

And your spoon is pretty, too.
smile

IP: Logged

rian

Posts: 169
Registered: Jan 2006

iconnumber posted 01-16-2006 02:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank-you outwest,

I just looked at your ice cream spoons. They are wonderful. I can see why you love them. I have a butter knife in the same pattern by Polhemus, so it was a thrill to see a likeness of the original patent application for Oriental.

Just sitting here I've thought of three more questions. But I won't bother you with them before using the search option. This site is really addictive.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2020 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices