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posted 12-04-2008 11:05 AM            

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I have a very nice dish which is hallmarked Tiffany & Co England also the London hallmark - T & Co. and Lion, Panther, i, in squares.

Is this the same Tiffany as New York? What is the relationship?

Any information would be appreciated.

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posted 12-04-2008 12:14 PM            

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According to Fallon’s “Marks of London Goldsmiths 1837-1914” Tiffany opened a London branch in 1868 and had shops at various London addresses until circa 1941. I believe the firm has continued to sell in England since then though not through their own shop. Difficult to say for sure without seeing a picture, but the marks you describe could be for 1964.

Tiffany will have contracted out the manufacture of silver items in England. A London spoon maker, now retired, gave me a copper plate a few years ago. On it he had stamped just about all the punches used in his workshop. They include the marks of just about every well known “maker” during his working life. Among them are punches for “Tiffany & Co London” and “Tiffany & Co England”. Your plate has the normal London marks rather than import marks so it would seem to have been made in England for Tiffany.

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posted 12-04-2008 01:48 PM            

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It would be interesting to see an image of the copper plate with all marks please.

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posted 12-04-2008 02:01 PM            

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Bascall

I'll have a go at a photograph. The plate is bent at right angles like a book-end and has been lacquered. It is very reflective so it may take a while as I try to get a decent image.

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posted 12-04-2008 04:28 PM            

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Herewith my attempt at pictures of the copper plate. Hope it is of interest. Happy to have another go in different lighting if it would help.

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posted 12-04-2008 05:18 PM            

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A photo of my Tiffany and Hallmarks

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posted 12-04-2008 06:24 PM            

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Yes. London 1964. Interesting looking piece, perhaps unusual for that date in the sense that it takes its inspiration from the past.

[This message has been edited by agphile (edited 12-04-2008).]

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posted 12-04-2008 09:48 PM            

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agphile, the copper plate is fantastic. Thank you! What a document.

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posted 12-05-2008 09:01 AM            

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Thanks agphile for the picture of your very interesting copper plate. I often wonder where all the punches have gone - I have never seen any for sale and they must be somewhere.

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posted 12-05-2008 09:13 AM            

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I should add a bit more about Tiffany in England as I failed to check further than my Fallon reference book earlier. In fact, Tiffany still has a shop in Old Bond Street, London, as well as selling through other retailers. The closure around 1941 was presumably due to WW2. I don’t know when they re-opened after the war.

The company name, as well as having a quality reputation, would in the 1960s have been linked with being a style leader of the late 19th / early 20th century. A UK purchaser in the 60s, wanting something in this tradition rather than the fashionable “modern Scandinavian” look, might naturally have turned to Tiffany.

My copper plate does not include the T&Co maker’s mark. I’m not sure whether to read into this that Tiffany would also sell English-made items carrying a different maker’s mark but with the Tiffany & Co retailer’s mark added. (As an aside, their earlier London maker’s mark from 1892 to some date after 1923 was A.W.F. for A W Fearearyear who managed the London shop.)

I was quite touched to be given the copper plate as a thank you for the small favour of giving a lift to a meeting of silver enthusiasts. It is indeed a fascinating document, and I also appreciate what the donor has taught me about the practice of his craft.

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posted 12-05-2008 09:24 AM            

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P.S. As to what happens about old punches, I guess they remain in the workshop until they are scrapped. A maker's (or retailer's)punch coming on to the market would risk creating opportunities for fraud.

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posted 12-08-2008 01:23 PM            

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P.P.S.

Fallon records several cases where old punches were defaced at Goldsmiths Hall when a maker entered new ones. In other cases, and in the USA, I assume it would be for the company or the individual silversmith's executors to deal with the security of punches.

Sorry if this excursion into marks takes us away from Verwald's attractive dish that started the topic off.

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posted 12-16-2008 09:13 PM            

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I know this came up in another forum, but Tiffany & Co. did and does contract silver from foreign makers (particularly Italy for Elsa Peretti's things); If it doesn't say "MAKERS" then Tiffany contracted it. I know they still sell baby cups and such made in England--as well as baby cups made in their own American shops.

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posted 02-04-2009 10:48 AM            

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A beautifully made Tiffany England caster in the Georgian taste:

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posted 05-23-2018 06:59 PM            

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Also see: New member with questions regarding Tiffany & Co

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All times are ET