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tline3open  Help Dating J.E. Caldwell Tea Service

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Author Topic:   Help Dating J.E. Caldwell Tea Service
joe Bruce

Posts: 20
Registered: Jun 2006

iconnumber posted 09-25-2007 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for joe Bruce     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1506]

Hello Everyone,

If some of you will remember me, I am a collector of 18th-19th C. English silver, mainly Presentation pieces. I live in the Detroit area and have a great time every chance I can, rummaging through the old Grosse Pointe houses and mansions, looking for silver that has been tucked away years ago and forgotten about. I usually come across some unique finds, like this J.E.Caldwell Tea/Coffee Service. I am wondering if anyone here can estimate a date when it was made? I plan on kepping it on my sideboard for now. it has 7 pieces, Hot water Kettle with tilting stand and burner, teapot, coffeepot, helmet creamer, waste bowl, and covered sugar. Each piece has substantial weight(total weight is 165 Ounces Troy) No tray. Each piece is marked: "818 J.E. Caldwell & Company 925-1000, Sterling , Philadelphia" , Neoclassical style with urn finials and square bases. I have searched for information on this firm and know they were started in the middle 19 C. Philadelphia and retailed pieces done by Tiffany and Gorham. The information seems to stop there! My guess is early 1900s. Any input is much appreciated! Keep up the great work! Thanks.

Joe



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FredZ

Posts: 1069
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 09-25-2007 09:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FredZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The monogram looks much older than early 19 century. It reminds me of early 20th century. The Adam style design of the set could have been made at any time. And the use of 925/1000 seems odd for the early 1800's. Just my humble opinion.

Fred

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 09-26-2007 10:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Every piece is in a splendid condition, for that size. Personal taste of somebody is always his own taste that's count. I've looked at some sites and I find it the styl for instance like a Gorham Sterling silver racing trophy (I'm sorry to say) Big and made not in (personal observation ofcourse) right proportion. Considering the age I think around 1920.
At my site it isn't possible to buy such artistic silverobjects and so be happy with it.
I hope you get the real date answer!

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 09-26-2007 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I have searched for information on this firm and know they were started in the middle 19 C. Philadelphia and retailed pieces done by Tiffany and Gorham. The information seems to stop there!

The company is still in business. The number 818 is probably a pattern number, so if you contact the company, they may be able to tell you when the pattern was available. If their records are detailed enough (and they may not be), the engraved initials (if original) might allow them to tell you whjen and to whom it was sold. Contact information is on their web site (enter the company name in the Google search box and click on the "I'm feeling lucky" link and it will come right up).

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Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 09-26-2007 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Though started at some hard to pin down date in the 1830s or 1840s, they started using the name J.E. Caldwell and Company in 1848. I agree though that the general style looks more recent that that - first half of the 1900s perhaps? The style is interesting and somewhat unique with the extreme height to the finials - though it is almost to the point of being visually unbalanced to my eye. Also, the different styles of handles are a little unsettling - two of them have very thin handles while the two pots have more substantial handles. Overall though I think it is a very nice set.

[This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 09-26-2007).]

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OWK

Posts: 69
Registered: Apr 2005

iconnumber posted 09-26-2007 06:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for OWK     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First impression would be 1895 to 1905

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joe Bruce

Posts: 20
Registered: Jun 2006

iconnumber posted 09-26-2007 10:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for joe Bruce     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all your feedback! I purchased many items from the estate where I found this tea service and most had the same mono. I recall seeing the full family name on something? I will try and research the name and see if I can get a more precise date. Many, Many thanks!(I found out the company has changed hands as of 8 years ago, so I am having a problem finding info. on pattern #818 and dating the marks)Any more comments on approx. date would still be greatly appreciated!
Joe

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Richard Kurtzman
Moderator

Posts: 759
Registered: Aug 2000

iconnumber posted 09-27-2007 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Kurtzman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would tend to doubt that Caldwell actually made this set but rather that they were the retailers. I don't think the 818 pattern number has anything to do with them.
The style of the set looks to be early 1900's but the style of the engraving is of an earlier period, C.1870's -1880's. On occasion though I have seen this engraving style used on early 1900 pieces.

[This message has been edited by Richard Kurtzman (edited 09-27-2007).]

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 09-27-2007 02:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've tried some research this morning and I thihk is good to combinate the initials, trying BHM (not so much historical facts about possibilities), trying HMB gives more information for instance using the words "history HMB Philadelphia". For instance a story about the Polson, Levansky, Buten serota families. I'm wondering what the meaning is of "de".But there are more combinations to make with the initials(and in combination with Philadelphia?) I hope some one recognize these one's. Succes Silverhunter.

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FredZ

Posts: 1069
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 09-27-2007 09:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FredZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suspect the surname began with the letter M. The "de" stands for of as in Cecil B. de Mille.

Fred

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Richard Kurtzman
Moderator

Posts: 759
Registered: Aug 2000

iconnumber posted 09-27-2007 10:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Kurtzman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've been thinking about this set and I think that it may well date from the last quarter of the 19th century. There is something oddly Victorianesque about the elongated finials and I believe that the Caldwell mark is 19th century. As I mentioned before the engraving is typically Victorian.

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silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 09-27-2007 06:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Short reaction,

I've found somewhere 3 marks about Caldwell,
it's a copy and I hope until the bad quality you can read the marks and I think they used the first one from beginning so the last one is used on your silver objects. Perhaps the third period after Caldwell started his company.

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joe Bruce

Posts: 20
Registered: Jun 2006

iconnumber posted 09-28-2007 11:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for joe Bruce     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I guess the concensus is what I thought, around 1900. Many thanks to all, for your research! I did find the full name of the monogram , Helene B. DeMonet. I checked the marks from J.E. Caldwell, the smaller pieces of my set have the markings: "J.E. Caldwell" no 925/1000 like the larger pieces, so my set has all the marks that are in the post? Not sure what to make of that. I just got back from an estate in Grosse Pointe where I found a nice Arts & Crafts ,Arthur J. Stone water pitcher along with some old English pieces! Best Regards to all!

Joe

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