SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
American Sterling Silver Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  American Sterling Silver
tline3open  Tiffany riding crop??

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Tiffany riding crop??
simonsays

Posts: 10
Registered: Dec 2006

iconnumber posted 12-13-2006 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for simonsays     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1285]

Hoping to hear from anyone who might be able to shed some light on an item found in a friend's attic. It is a 5" long sterling silver handle, possibly the end of a riding crop. It is inscribed "Old Indian, November 26, 1896, Sterling, Tiffany and Co." There is a set of initials found at the bottom, "SWF". The item was found in a box belonging to my friend's grandfather who worked on some of the large estates in Great Neck, NY. With the shamrocks displaying some wonderful enamel work, we are curious if this might have been designed by Paulding Farnham.

Any information regarding this Tiffany item would be greatly appreciated!

IP: Logged

Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 12-13-2006 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At 5" long it seems to me more like an umbrella or parasol handle--although The Newark Museum owns a carriage whip with a gold handle by Tiffany & Co. There's no way to attribute anything to Farnham without seeing it--he was not the only gifted designer working at Tiffany's at the time--Charles Curran, for one, designed some great things.

IP: Logged

simonsays

Posts: 10
Registered: Dec 2006

iconnumber posted 12-13-2006 07:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for simonsays     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the suggestion. We also considered it to the the handle of an umbrella. I firmly believe it to be a piece by Paulding Farnham. The date is his wife's birthday and her initals are encircled in a crescent moon, a personal symbol between the two. We are most curious as to what its original purpose was and if others might have similar type objects in their collections. I have a photo of the silver piece but have had trouble posting it. If anyone would be willing, I'd be happy to forward the image to you to place in this forum. Farnham's wife was the noted American sculptor Sally James Farnham, who, incidentally, designed a commemorative medal found in the Newark Museum's collection honoring the erection of her Simon Bolivar monument in New York's Central Park in 1921.

IP: Logged

aherring

Posts: 2
Registered: Dec 2006

iconnumber posted 12-14-2006 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aherring     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's the image to which simonsays made reference:

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 12-14-2006 09:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For many makers, handles of this type were applied to a number of different tasks. Umbrellas, walking sticks, riding crops and whips come readily to mind. Also for use as a center pole with a serving tray, one other.

Do not know if this is true of Tiffany. Most makers had to use their expensive dies in many ways.

IP: Logged

IJP

Posts: 326
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 12-15-2006 09:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for IJP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I think of pieces that are distinctly Farnham, I think typically of his Native American-influenced objects, or the Islamic-influenced items he designed under the tutelage of Edward C. Moore. These, of course, are only a few among many things Farnham designed, and I suppose the only reason they stick out in my memory is that they are the larger presentation pieces that are repeatedly profiled and featured in the existing literature on the subject. I don't know much about the utilitarian objects that he may have designed. In fact, I can't say I know a whole lot about any of the ordinary, utilitarian and non-tableware items produced by Tiffany & Co.

I think some more images would certainly help in this instance. The nature and form of this kind of item makes it difficult to make any real resolutions about its origin based on only the single image provided. More views of the chased decoration may help, perhaps a close-up of the enamel-work, and most definitely a view of the maker's marks.

IP: Logged

Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 12-15-2006 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tell us more. You mention the use of Farnham's wife's birthdate? Is this a family piece? That would clear up a lot. A piece that was owned in his family might well have been designed by him, especially with a personal provenance (i.e. a gift to his wife, and this is a woman's piece, and I am pretty sure it's an umbrella or parasol handle). However, it is unlikely that Farnham slipped little family in-jokes into things he designed for production by Tiffany & Co. for general customers. It wouldn't have been in his personality to do that. So I'm a little confused. Farnham was a full-blown beaux-arts designer, and worked in historical as well as modern styles. His Native American designs are more of a fluke than typical (typical of his creativity, but not typical of the work he did for Tiffany), in my mind. He did great conservative neo-classical work for Tiffany's display at the Paris 1900 Fair, where, ironically, art nouveau was "born."

IP: Logged

PFsilver

Posts: 3
Registered: Aug 2006

iconnumber posted 12-15-2006 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PFsilver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am director of the Sally James Farnham Catalogue Raisonne Project. The date is her birthdate. As for the crescent moon design, he has used this on other personal items he gave to his wife, including a champage holder illustrated in Janet Zapata's second article on Paulding Farnham in The Magazine Antiques, "More on Paulding Farnham." It is wonderful to get some confirmation that this is a piece meant for a woman and probably an umbrella handle. The initials somewhat confuse me, if this is in fact by Paulding. He married Sally a month after the date inscribed on this item. Her new monogram whould have been "SJF". Maiden monogram was "SWJ". I am curious whether, as a new husband, he mistook her newly married monogram to be "SWF". That is neither here nor there relating to this forum, although I appreciate all insight. Thank you!!

IP: Logged

Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 12-15-2006 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anything is possible and I have no facts one way or the other, but since his wife's name was Sally James Farnham my common sense is whispering in my ear that either the date is a coincidence and it is not something he gave to his wife, or it was not designed by Farnham at all. If it does turn out to be a Farnham designed item, was there a woman in his family who had the initials SWF such as his mother or grandmother or sister or such who had a birthday or anniversary date or something on that date? Or, was there any other woman liveing in New York who had that date as a birthday, anniversary day, etc. to whom someone may have given a parasol? My thinking is that I am having a hard time imagining a designer of this stature and a company of this stature making such a major mistake on the engraving.

IP: Logged

PFsilver

Posts: 3
Registered: Aug 2006

iconnumber posted 12-16-2006 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PFsilver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All wonderful points and it is something I have wrestled with, trying to come up with an answer either for or against. Now that I know it is a lady's umbrella handle, I searched my files for photographs and found one of Sally holding such an umbrella. As my luck runs, the image washes out around the object in question. I can determine the shape is remarkably similar and it contains swirls similar to the image above. I need to go to the NYPL to see the original photograph and determine whether it might be an amazing match!

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 12-16-2006 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Once an engagement had been announced, it was not all uncommon for friends to give the bride to be objects with her future initials. Actually, people still do it.

On the other hand, putting a lady's first name on silver means it will last through many marriages. Just a thought.

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 12-16-2006 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is this die stamped, hand engraved, or a combination?

Is this made from one piece or more than one? Is there a visible seam anywhere on the piece.

Has anyone here ever handled a Tiffany item? What I am trying to get at is: did Tiffany make handles like this for umbrellas, walking sticks and whips?

IP: Logged

simonsays

Posts: 10
Registered: Dec 2006

iconnumber posted 12-17-2006 06:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for simonsays     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anyone here ever handled a Tiffany item? What I am trying to get at is: did Tiffany make handles like this for umbrellas, walking sticks and whips?

I would like to know the answer to this question! Does anyone know if Tiffany sold such items? Are examples offered in the early Blue Books?

IP: Logged

jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 12-17-2006 06:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Simonsays!

I found this for you I hope it helps.

About whether or not Tiffany made umbrellas, parasols or the like. You may want to check this completed auction:

quote:
TIFFANY & CO CANE WITH A HORN AND STERLING SILV

TIFFANY & CO CANE WITH A HORN AND STERLING SILVER HANDLE. Together with a parasol





The umbrella handle looks very similar to what you may have.

Have a Happy & Safe Holiday.
Jersey

IP: Logged

Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 12-20-2006 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm still obsessing about the monogram. WAS there a W in Sally James Farnham's name? The W, if it was her middle initial, would come and go as she got used to having a married name. FOR EXAMPLE: my great-grandmother was Clara Frances Wales. Some of her wedding silver is engraved CFW for her maiden name. Some of it is CWR for her married initials (Clara Wales Root) and some of it is CFR (Clara Frances Root). Neither my mother nor her sisters were given a middle name precisely to avoid this confusion.

So, again, was there a W?

IP: Logged

simonsays

Posts: 10
Registered: Dec 2006

iconnumber posted 12-20-2006 11:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for simonsays     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow!! Thank you for your enthusiasm! I have finally been able to see the monogram in more detail and determined that the last letter is, in fact, a "J" and not the "F" as previously believed. That would make it "S"ally "W"elles "J"ames. I have actually found a formal portrait of her at the New York Historical Society in which she is holding an umbrella with a very similar handle (photo is washed out a bit). I thank you for leading us in the right direction. It is always exciting to discover something lost for so long, and in this case, a sentimental gift between two of the most interesting personalities the art world has produced!

IP: Logged

MrsMcCake

Posts: 1
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 07-03-2007 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrsMcCake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is most likely a Paulding piece done for Sally. Sally's full name was Sarah Welles James, thus the SWF would make sense. Paulding and Sally were my mother in law's grandparents.

My husband, Paulding's great great grandson, has a champagne bottle with a silver band across with the moon motif and the inscription, "midnight and the moon was beaming", this also has a date which is the day Paulding proposed to Sally and also my husband's birthday.

There is another family piece of Paulding's, via Tiffany which as the shamrock motif.

The family lived in Great Neck on an estate there that burned down.

Kind regards

IP: Logged

simonsays

Posts: 10
Registered: Dec 2006

iconnumber posted 07-03-2007 01:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for simonsays     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mrs. McCake,

Thank you for your reply. I believe I am friends with your in-laws.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2020 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices