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chase33

Posts: 360
Registered: Feb 2008

iconnumber posted 02-20-2008 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chase33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1587]

Hello,

I thought I would post a little about myself and interests as suggested by one of the moderators in my first post. My main interest is Gorham Chantilly. My mother gave me her set of Chantilly since she never used it. Her set consisted of pieces they received at the time of their marriage in 1965 and consisted of the "basic" place pieces and serving pieces. I have since added many more pieces (place pieces, serving pieces and holloware) and prefer those made prior to 1950 to those made afterwards. I don't mind monograms, if they were properly engraved and look nice and avoid pieces that have had monograms removed. This has sparked my interest in silver especially Gorham. I have collected other silver pieces from mostly American companies and a few British pieces. Within the past year, I have inherited a small set of Gorham Etruscan that once belonged to a great-great aunt and a full set of Baker and Manchester Gadroonette that my grandparents received as a wedding gift. I like to use my silver as often as possible (not just at Thanksgiving and Christmas) but not on a daily basis. I have done a lot of research but have come up with few definitive answers and have a pretty good collection of reference books. My inter-library loan librarian hates to hear my voice when I call since she knows I am going to ask the impossible but she does her best to try and get me the materials I request. I will be quiet now since I am getting carpel tunnel from typing all this and I am sure you are getting eyestrain from reading it. But be forewarned, I have many questions that I can't wait to post and hopefully add more knowledge so that I am better informed as a collector.

Robert

PS, my main collecting goal is to have a "complete" collection of Chantilly including all pieces made by Gorham (and none of those made-up fantasy pieces, fakes made from teaspoons etc.)


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rian

Posts: 169
Registered: Jan 2006

iconnumber posted 02-21-2008 07:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, you must really have your work cut out for you because Chantilly(1895) has been so popular for so long. As new pieces became fashionable they would have been put in the latest Chantilly catalog.

If you don't mind my asking, how many different pieces do you have? Which one is your favorite?

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Kimo

Posts: 1577
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 02-21-2008 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Robert! Welcome to the forum. Kimo

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chase33

Posts: 360
Registered: Feb 2008

iconnumber posted 02-21-2008 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chase33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi,

I have about 160 pieces of flatware in Chantilly and my favorite pieces are the ones with the "scroll" addition. I was also lucky enough to snag a tea service in the chantilly grand pattern, which is my favorite so far. I know I have a big challenge but hopefully I'll be able to finish. Would love to find some of the enameled pieces with the delft enameling.

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ellabee

Posts: 306
Registered: Dec 2007

iconnumber posted 02-21-2008 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ellabee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
chase33: >my favorite [Chantilly] pieces are the ones with the "scroll" addition

Welcome, Robert. Tell a little more about this extra scroll. The only piece of Chantilly I've seen is the one here -- a waffle server that was a wedding gift to my grandmother in 1917.

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chase33

Posts: 360
Registered: Feb 2008

iconnumber posted 02-21-2008 08:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chase33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello,

Apparently the original Chantilly had some pieces that had additional scroll work where the handle meets the serving implement. I have been able to identify about 70 pieces that have this feature such as the large flat handle master butter knife, sugar shell, tomato server, chipped beef, cold meat etc.

I am not sure if this was standard until the "New Chantilly" was introduced or was an "upgrade" like the enameled pieces. This is where I get frustrated. Given the popularity of Chantilly and the number of pieces sold and number of collectors, there seems to be a significant lack of solid source material and reference book(s). Sure most books mention it as the "best selling" silver pattern and its longevity, but that is about as far as they go.

SO if anyone out there has any information or resources, I would be extremely happy to hear from you.

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Cheryl and Richard

Posts: 154
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 02-24-2008 07:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cheryl and Richard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Robert, and welcome to the Silver Salon Forum.

We also have a set of Chantilly, which was inherited from a grandmother who was married in 1907. It came with 12 place settings and a number of serving pieces. For the past 30 years we have been using it every night, at dinner. And, during those 30 years, we have doubled the amount of Chantilly in the silver chest, adding place pieces she did not have, and serving pieces.

We agree, there is an amazing scarcity of information about Chantilly. The best we have found is the set of three catalogs that Beverly Bremer, an Atlanta dealer, reproduced in 1995: they were Gorham’s 1895, 1904 and 1914 Chantilly catalogs. The 1895 edition shows what some have referred to as the ‘applied decoration’, or what you are calling ‘scroll’. The cover of the 1904 edition says “New Chantilly”, and the reprint’s introduction points out that it has a pared-down design. Photocopies of these catalogs are frequently offered on the internet.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 02-24-2008 07:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could someone please post a picture of the scroll and the not scroll for those of us unfamiliar with this?

This sounds like a major undertaking. There sometimes are also regional and overseas items in US flatware patterns. Like the gumbo spoon sold in the South. And items destined for overseas markets. Like the French fruit sets which were made from hollow handle butter knife handles fitted with long forks and blades. AIR, Chantilly has at least 4 distinct items thought to be salad forks.

Thanks for introducing us to this area of collecting.

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chase33

Posts: 360
Registered: Feb 2008

iconnumber posted 02-25-2008 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chase33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here are two pictures of the tomato server that I have. One has the scroll (applied) decoration and the other does not. The second picture is a detail of the scroll. I hope this works since this is my first time posting pictures.



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Cheryl and Richard

Posts: 154
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 02-26-2008 08:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cheryl and Richard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, you posted your photos well.

What was the source of the listing you made of the pieces with the applied decoration?

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chase33

Posts: 360
Registered: Feb 2008

iconnumber posted 02-26-2008 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chase33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
These are two pieces in my collection. I have a few others like the sugar shell. These are some of my favorite pieces.

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taloncrest

Posts: 169
Registered: Jun 2004

iconnumber posted 02-26-2008 10:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for taloncrest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This post Gorham Chantilly pieces also discusses the same topic, and has another picture of the scroll edge.

I did once have a Chantilly sugar spoon with the scroll edge, engraved in the bowl "To Ethel from Birdie".

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11202
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 02-27-2008 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
chase33,

Could you please tell us what your references are for the 70 pieces with the extra applied decoration, or are you referring to what is in your collection?

Thanks.

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chase33

Posts: 360
Registered: Feb 2008

iconnumber posted 02-27-2008 07:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chase33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi

I wish I had all those piecesin my collection, I would be one happy person! In trying to figure out what all pieces were made over the years in Chantilly, I went to the big online replacements website and created a database of all of the pieces that they had listed in the various Chantilly patterns. I ended up with hundreds of "different" pieces but I suspect that there are quite alot that are duplicates but are listed twice, just with different lengths (usually only by 1/8th inch different). I think this length difference is due to the normal wear over the years, small changes to the dies being used and that this company is being a tad bit overzealous in being accurate.
Anyway, from the initial list I have narrowed down the number that had the applied decoration as well as those that had gilding. I hope to be receiving an original gorham catalouge this week, so hopefully I will have more definite info later on.

Robert

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Cheryl and Richard

Posts: 154
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 03-14-2008 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cheryl and Richard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert,

In another thread, you said that last week you got a 1929 Gorham catalog. What Chantilly was shown, if any?

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chase33

Posts: 360
Registered: Feb 2008

iconnumber posted 03-15-2008 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chase33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi,

What the dealer had was not a catalogue but more of a brochure that didn't show anything of value, so I didn't buy it. I did however buy the three catalogue reprints from Beverly Bremer. I have created a spreadsheet where I have gone through and listed each individual piece according to each catalogue and that documents changes in designs. I have also measured each piece in the catalogues and recorded that info in the spreadsheet as well. As a (sort-of) check, I downloaded the listing from the big online replacement services and compared their measurements to those I made. So far I am up to around 300 different pieces when you take into account the applied (scroll) decoration, gilt and plain pieces. There is no mention of the enameled or delft enameled pieces since those were special order pieces.

Tonight I am going to try to work on sorting out the post 1950 pieces. If anyone would like to help by measuring and sharing info on Chantilly pieces, I would be very grateful. If you would like a copy of my spreadsheet, just let me know and I will be happy to share as well.

Robert

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