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tline3open  Small Shiebler ???

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Author Topic:   Small Shiebler ???
denimrs

Posts: 102
Registered: Dec 2005

iconnumber posted 07-13-2010 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for denimrs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-2006]

Hello again,

I am writing today to get the experts' thoughts on what my little piece of Shiebler hollow ware may be. The person I bought it from thought it was a small serving piece, but that just did not seem right to me. However, I could come up with no uses that seemed to fit, so for years I have thought of it as my little Shiebler vessel. Last week I was looking at it again and believe I had a "Eureka" moment and figured out what it is. But, maybe I am wrong, so I decided to put the question to the experts on this forum.

The little lovely is only 2" tall and 2" across (excluding the curled handle).

Thanks for any thoughts you have!

Elizabeth

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DB

Posts: 252
Registered: May 2006

iconnumber posted 07-13-2010 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe for tooth picks?

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taloncrest

Posts: 169
Registered: Jun 2004

iconnumber posted 07-14-2010 07:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for taloncrest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe a drop-dead gorgeous baby cup?

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 07-14-2010 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe a wine taster?

Jersey

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Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 07-14-2010 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know, but my guess is a punch cup - part of a large set of small cups to go with a matching punch bowl?

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11377
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 07-14-2010 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could it have had a cover (not a lid)?

I suspect it was for passing sugar.

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denimrs

Posts: 102
Registered: Dec 2005

iconnumber posted 07-14-2010 04:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for denimrs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very interesting thoughts, everyone -- some I also had and a couple that are brand new.

Toothpick holder: I also wondered about that, but only if Victorian tootpicks were much longer than current picks. Today's toothpicks barely clear the top.

Sugar bowl: Another thought I had, but I think it could only be used for demitasse. It is so tiny that the only spoon that would fit in it would be a coffee spoon. Teaspoons might fit in the bowl, but I think the handles would be a bit too long.

Wine taster and punch cup: new ideas for me. I never considered that this could be something for adults to drink out of. So, I tried it and it didn't work very well. This holds only 1/4 of a cup of liquid and it pretty much dripped down my chin as I tried to drink. Not a very desireable result.

That leaves Baby Cup: My current best guess. The main reason I decided on that is the condition -- all the bumps and bruises it has sustained. Ever since I bought it I have wondered how it got so banged up. It is thick and heavy as is typcial of Shiebler, but has many dents and the tail of the handle is bent a bit to one side which makes it wobble a bit.

The "eureka" moment was when I realized the condition is typical of baby cups and bowls -- at least my baby cups and porringer are like that. Suddenly I could just imagine some baby waving it around, dropping it on the floor and slamming it down on the tray of the high chair. What fun it must have been.

So, that is what my best guess is as of the moment.

One more question: Should I get it fixed or leave it as is with all its history showing?

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DB

Posts: 252
Registered: May 2006

iconnumber posted 07-14-2010 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like my things in A1 condition and would get it fixed, especially as you don't know the baby who banged it up.....
baby cup is probably most plausible, even though I also liked the punch cup suggestion - the handle etc. would be a point for this.

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 07-14-2010 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Perhaps the first question should have been, does anyone have a reference book on Shiebler re the Patent/pattern/model numbers that would ID the 5450?

I cannot see it as a baby cup, much too small IMHO, but heh, what do I know compared to other members here!

Jersey

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 07-15-2010 02:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If this is a baby cup, I suspect it belongs in John Waters' dangerous toys collection. The rear spiral looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Are there any signs of a lid ever having been on this?

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denimrs

Posts: 102
Registered: Dec 2005

iconnumber posted 07-15-2010 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for denimrs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, after considering the comments, I too am now questioning whether this would have been a baby cup -- in fact, I wonder if it was meant to be a cup for anyone to drink out of. The round shape and the small opening make it just about impossible to drink from.

And, it is tiny, but, believe it or not, I have an even smaller baby cup. Here is a photo with one of my old cups on the left, this one in the middle and my best cup on the right. This holds 4 oz. of liquid compared to only 2 3/4 oz in my old cup.

This cup is only 1 7/8" wide; my old one is 2 1/8" but its straight sides make it easier to drink out of.

I see no signs of this one ever having had any sort of lid or top. Its lip is rolled, as is the one on my old cup. There is no wear along the inside of the lip to suggest something had fit into it at one time.

So, now I am thinking that it was not made to be a baby cup, but maybe became a play thing for a baby at one point and that is how it got so banged up.

One more thought -- could it have been made to hold cigarettes?

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Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 07-15-2010 01:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Given your assessment that it does not appear to be very functional, perhaps it is just a whimsy that was made to be put on a shelf to admire?

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 07-15-2010 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wild guess on my part ahead. This began life as the holder for a kerosene or spirit burner that was used to heat hair curlers. It would have been part of a toilette set. Very few of these ever survived with a burner still in it.

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ahwt

Posts: 2173
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 07-15-2010 05:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Coconut shaped drinking vessels (Water dippers) are not uncommon and this attractive Shiebler cup may well have been intended for a child. Most of the silver coconut cups take some liberty with the actual shape of a coconut, but none are as easy to drink from as a straight sided cup.
I suspect that Shiebler and the others that made cups in this shape were more interested in form than function.
You have a very attractive cup and I would certainly take the dents out of it.

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denimrs

Posts: 102
Registered: Dec 2005

iconnumber posted 07-16-2010 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for denimrs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What interesting new ideas. It certainly is the shape of the coconut cups shown in the article and I can see how they could have been the inspiration for this little beauty.

Thanks to you all! And, mow I need to find someone to do the needed restoration to get this back in shape.

Elizabeth

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June Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 1223
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 07-17-2010 01:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for June Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could it have been meant to hold a hard boiled egg? Does it look like the inside was ever vermeiled to guard against the sulfur of the egg?

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denimrs

Posts: 102
Registered: Dec 2005

iconnumber posted 07-18-2010 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for denimrs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by June Martin:
Could it have been meant to hold a hard boiled egg? Does it look like the inside was ever vermeiled to guard against the sulfur of the egg?

Interesting thought, but I don't see any residue of it having had a gold wash inside at one time.

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Polly

Posts: 1939
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 08-30-2010 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What a pretty cup!

Could it have had a glass or china liner at one time? No, probably it would be impossible to get a liner inside that narrow rim.

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Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 08-30-2010 04:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is fun. Two more ideas are:

1. Since you say the opening on the top seems too small to drink from without dribbling (which argues against a baby cup in my mind since it would be a cruel thing to do to a baby to teach him or her that they would never learn to drink from a cup without making a mess of themselves) I was thinking that it might not be for liquids after all and perhaps is a part of a toilet set - something like a hair holder. One often saved the hair from one's brush in a holder. However, many of these that I have seen tend to have a lid with a hole in the center.

2. Or perhaps some other use in a toilet set? As the opening is somewhat small, perhaps is it is a rose vase? Fill it with water and take a rose bloom or other flower bloom with a very short stem and have it on your toilet table?

I'm still thinking punch cup, but it is fun to think of other possible uses. I can not wait until someone finds an old catalog and can tell us what it actually was.

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denimrs

Posts: 102
Registered: Dec 2005

iconnumber posted 08-30-2010 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for denimrs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Polly and Kimo,

Fun to read some more ideas about my little mystery.

Polly -- I also had wondered about it having had a liner at one point, but think it would have been impossible to fit one inside --- unless the silver part was made around the liner, which also seems it would be impossible. The reason is that the top is narrower than the rest of the cup so it would not be possible to fit a rounded liner into that hole.

Kimo -- your have some interesting ideas. My thought had been that a child would be able to drink from it without dribbling, but not an adult. Now I wonder about that. Maybe I will have to take it to my sister's house where her toddler grandson is and see if he can manage a drink out of it better than I could. If I manage to do that I will post the results.

A little flower holder could be a good use for it whether that was what was originally intended or not. It just needs to be fixed so it balances better.

Elizabeth

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