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Author Topic:   ONC
vathek

Posts: 962
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 09-14-2008 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[01-2681]

Is there a way to date Old Newbury Crafters work from the marks?

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11377
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 09-14-2008 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
See Old Newbury Crafters unique maker's marks

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vathek

Posts: 962
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 09-15-2008 10:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Scott, but these are the marks used only after 1960. I was curious about the marks used prior to those.

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middletom

Posts: 467
Registered: May 2004

iconnumber posted 09-24-2008 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for middletom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Vathek,

Prior to the use of individual marks for each silversmith, as Scott said dating from the early 1960s, only the company stamps were used. Swift Barnes, who bought the company in 1955, introduced the use of the "handwrought" stamp to go along with the company stamp. Pieces made before 1955 were marked "ONC sterling", and I have seen old pieces marked "sterling ONC". Those were usually with raised letters, which I think is called "intaglio", though I can't be positive that that style was always used prior to 1955. I think Mr. Barnes also started the use of the stamps which strike the letters into the silver. Dating a piece made before 1955 is very difficult.

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 09-24-2008 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Middletom!

Just curious, regardless of the time frame, do you keep records of special order pieces, such as who ordered them? Example: ones with monograms, or inscriptions. If so, are those records available to anyone, say, who acquires an estate piece & would want to trace their history with you.

Thank you for your time.
Stay dry this weekend!

Jersey

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middletom

Posts: 467
Registered: May 2004

iconnumber posted 09-28-2008 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for middletom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jersey,
The company sales records can tell what has been sold, though those records would only provide clear information on items in our standard flatware lines. When we make a custom piece or pieces, we try, usually, to make a drawing of the work with a mention of the stock size used and the customer's name.
For engraved pieces, we do not normally keep records of those as the engraving is done outside. Occasionally, sales records may have mention of what was engraved, but without more detail than that, it would be hard to research an item.
I don't know if this helps to answer your question, but it is late and I'm tired and all this may not make much sense in the light of day.

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vathek

Posts: 962
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 09-29-2008 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
middletom: thanks for the info. I guess that dates this piece prior to 1955. I guess it's an individual asparagus server? It measures approx 5". It's complete mark is 'sterling onc'. I'm not even sure what the pattern is.

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 09-29-2008 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, Middletom!

Even in the dark of night, it's clear as a bell!
P.S. Is there a way to tell if a piece is custom made?

Don't work so hard!

Jersey

[This message has been edited by jersey (edited 09-29-2008).]

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middletom

Posts: 467
Registered: May 2004

iconnumber posted 10-01-2008 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for middletom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Vathek,

You have me stumped with that one. I've never seen a tong design like that and the handle pattern is not one of ours. You say that it is stamped "sterling ONC", yet I can not see that in the stamps you show. None of those looks like anything ONC ever put on a piece. Are you sure it is an ONC piece? Can you show a picture of the "sterling ONC" stamp?

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middletom

Posts: 467
Registered: May 2004

iconnumber posted 10-01-2008 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for middletom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jersey,

The best way to tell if one of our pieces is custom is to compare it to the pictures of our flatware patterns in our brochure. That would tell you if the handle design was one of our standards or not. In the ase of the utensil part, the best way to tell if it was a custom piece would be to send a picture to us at Old Newbury Crafers P.O. Box 196 Amesbury, MA 01913. We would then be better able to identify the piece.

I can't work less. I don't know how to slow down. If you have a piece of ONC that you are not sure of, we'd be happy to hear from you.

middletom

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vathek

Posts: 962
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 10-01-2008 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
middletom:

This is the best pic I'm likely to get as the stamp is less than 1/16" high and in the middle of the tongs. I'm certain the first letter is an O and the middle outline could, it seems, only fit an N, while the last one could only be a C or a G. My edition of Rainwater is an older one and I could not even come close to anything else. If anyone has some suggestions as to other solutions, I would be interested in them.

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 10-01-2008 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks again Middletom!

At this time I do not own any of ONC's great pieces, but am very happy to get the info you so generously shared. If I do get lucky in the future I'll take you up on your kind offer.
Stay cool!

Jersey


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salmoned

Posts: 336
Registered: Jan 2005

iconnumber posted 10-01-2008 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for salmoned     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suspect this may be a G H French mark that shows some wear/damage. I've seen a cigarette case with a very similar mark.

[This message has been edited by salmoned (edited 10-01-2008).]

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vathek

Posts: 962
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 10-03-2008 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
salmoned:

You are right, it is G H French, now that I know what to look for. If only Rainwater would have shown the proper marks for ONC...

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middletom

Posts: 467
Registered: May 2004

iconnumber posted 10-03-2008 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for middletom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Vathek,

Rainwater, I'm sure, had only the information from Mr. Barnes at ONC and he most likely did not give her a clear accounting of the stampings from the past.

Somewhat on that subject, the information which Mr. Barnes did give to Rainwater included a picture of a griffon. Mr. Barnes had adopted that design from the emblem of a large estate owned by the Mosley family in Newburyport, MA. He had it put on the company stationery and brochures, but it was not stamped on our silver. That has caused us a good deal of trouble in recent years, because the Meriden Silver company had a similar griffon as their company emblem and it was put on their silver. As a result, a number of Meriden pieces have appeared at auction and been attributed to us because the seller looked into Rainwater and saw the griffon under the ONC listing. That griffon never should have been displayed with our name, for it has just caused a good deal of confusion.

By the way, that is a beautiful set of tongs. The design reminds me of some of Shreve&co. work.

middletom

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vathek

Posts: 962
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 10-04-2008 06:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all your help middletom. I have seen quite a few pieces with the Meriden mark attributed to ONC.

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