|
|
|
| How to Post Photos |
REGISTER (click here)
|
|
|
|
| How to Post Photos |
REGISTER (click here)
|
|
 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 American Sterling Silver
 Unknown Gorham Hollowware Symbols
|
 SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! |
next newest topic | next oldest topic |
| Author | Topic: Unknown Gorham Hollowware Symbols |
|
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 09-09-2010 11:22 AM
  
[01-2864] A while back in the "Gorham Versailles trademark question" thread I mentioned that Gorham used a variety of symbols on their late coin silver and early sterling hollowware. I would say that the symbols were employed from about 1865 until the early 1870s. I've noticed this for years and I have not been able to figure out their significance. Does anyone out there have any ideas? Symbols on two coin silver pieces. IP: Logged |
|
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 01-25-2011 03:07 PM
Here's another one. It's from an 1870 sterling bowl and the symbol looks like a federal shield. These symbols are most curious and as far as I know no one has written anything about them or what they mean. Has anyone else noticed the symbols posted here or any others? IP: Logged |
|
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 01-26-2011 02:22 PM
Several years ago I saw similar marks on a couple Wood & Hughes silver pieces of the same period. Both--perhaps coincidentally--had handwork and at the time, I wondered if these mysterious symbols may have identified the chaser, engraver, etc. who was responsible for the hand-embellishments on the items. Richard, do the pieces whose marks you show have anything in common other than period, such as repousse, engraving, form, etc? They were probably meant as some kind of internal code within the factory as they are too cryptic to have been intended for the retailer or customer to interpret. Perhaps to identify a worker, which factory section produced the items, their retail destination, or some other aspect of their manufacture. Seeing two different items stamped with the same symbol could prove enlightening. [This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 01-26-2011).] IP: Logged |
|
Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 01-26-2011 10:17 PM
For what it's worth, I too have a Wood & Hughes item (a coin silver ladle) with a mysterious star on it, but my ladle doesn't have any engraving or obvious hand work except a simple monogram. IP: Logged |
|
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 01-27-2011 12:37 PM
perhaps these marks are "journeyman marks" or "tally marks":
quote: [This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 01-27-2011).] IP: Logged |
|
denimrs Posts: 102 |
posted 01-27-2011 03:37 PM
I also have a Wood & Hughes piece with a mark that seems odd -- unconnected. I had meant to post but never got around to it, so maybe now is a good time. It is this fork, which I think may be a salad fork, or perhaps some sort of pastry fork. It is 6 1/2" long. And, here is the unusual mark -- or would it be marks since there are two? It is also marked sterling, but there are no other marks, no engraving, etc. From the design, it looks to me to be sort of Arts & Crafts era, but I could be wrong. Any theories as to the mark would be of great interest. IP: Logged |
|
nutmegr Posts: 58 |
posted 01-27-2011 03:38 PM
I have wondered about the mark on this piece. I had assumed the mark to be a date mark, but it doesn't quite match up with any I could find. I did think at first it could be a Q (1884), but that doesn't fit with the style of the Gorham mark - which looks more mid 1860's. Slightly OT, but most chatelaines I've seen have had multiple attachments, while this only has room for one. Is this even a chatelaine, or perhaps something for a watch? IP: Logged |
|
Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 01-27-2011 04:47 PM
Elizabeth, your fork is in W&H's 1875 Angelo pattern. I have no clue about the other marks, though. IP: Logged |
|
denimrs Posts: 102 |
posted 01-28-2011 09:31 AM
quote: Thanks Polly, It is always good to know pattern name and date. And, given that date I see my idea of it being arts & crafts seems off by some time. Oh well..... Elizabeth IP: Logged |
|
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 01-28-2011 12:41 PM
Elizabeth's W&H fork is the Viola pattern, circa 1875. this type of pattern is very typical of 1870s design. nutmegr--your chatelaine clip is from 1884; that is Gorham's Q date letter. the trademark, though similar to one of their earlier styles, was used in the 1880s (i most often see it on napkin rings of the period). another clue to the later date is the sans serif style of the word STERLING. the piece is certainly more neoclassical than many medallion pieces were by the 1880s, but nevertheless, it is from 1884. [This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 01-28-2011).] IP: Logged |
|
Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 01-28-2011 12:43 PM
Paul's right! Viola, not Angelo. So sorry! I even thought Viola, but typed Angelo. Silly little brain. IP: Logged |
|
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 01-28-2011 12:49 PM
on flatware, perhaps the marks indicated different weight classes. IP: Logged |
|
denimrs Posts: 102 |
posted 01-28-2011 01:37 PM
Thanks everyone. I had actually gone looking for Angelo myself, to see other pieces, and discovered it did not exactly match. So, that set me off to find out what it was and I did come up with Viola, same year of 1875. So, it was a bit of fun for me. Thanks for getting me started, Polly. Elizabeth IP: Logged |
|
nutmegr Posts: 58 |
posted 01-28-2011 03:26 PM
Thank you, Paul, for that information. The only source I had for that particular Gorham mark was Carpenter - but it always bothered me because that earlier date would likely have been coin, while this was marked sterling. A clear case of experience trumping books! IP: Logged |
|
Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 01-28-2011 06:43 PM
quote: The Arts and Crafts style was started around the 1860s by William Morris but it did not really develop into the dramatic style that people avidly collect today until around the 1890 to 1915 or so era. I would call this style early or proto Arts and Crafts. It is a little on the fru fru side to meet the iconic style that most people think of, but I think it has some of the elments and that might be a better fitting term than some of the other styles. On the other hand, I think the desire many people have to label things has gone a bit far and seems to be driven by marketing hype - I prefer to say it is a pleasing design of flatware and would enjoy it for that. - Kimo IP: Logged |
|
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 01-29-2011 03:11 PM
some might say the Viola pattern is similar to the Eastlake style of furniture & architecture. IP: Logged |
|
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 01-29-2011 04:24 PM
Below is a photo of the piece that has the shield symbol. Paul, Though there is no evidence at this point to confirm it, you may be on to something with the tally mark supposition. IP: Logged |
|
Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 01-29-2011 10:43 PM
Are those crawfish handles? Zowie! IP: Logged |
|
Paul Lemieux Posts: 1792 |
posted 01-30-2011 02:31 AM
of the various theories in this thread, including the many advanced by me, i think the journeyman/tally mark is the most likely. IP: Logged |
|
Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 02-11-2011 09:56 PM
I just noticed a Wood & Hughes ladle that's identical to mine--same size, same pattern (gadroon)--and has the same mysterious mark, a five-pointed star with blunt points. (Different monogram, in a different lettering style.) I guess the star could be the mark of the same journeyman who made mine; no reason he couldn't have made two gadroon ladles. But does anyone think it might be associated with the form or pattern somehow, instead of with the craftsman? IP: Logged |
|
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 04-22-2011 09:57 PM
Here is another one, this time from 1874. It's very similar to, if not the same as, the first mark pictured. This is the latest date that I have seen with one of these marks. IP: Logged |
|
asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 05-07-2015 10:34 AM
Interesting thread! I've seen these marks and wondered the same things. IP: Logged |
All times are ET | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
  |
|
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a
|
1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums. 2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development). 3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post. |
|
copyright © 1993 - 2022
SM Publications
All Rights Reserved. Legal & Privacy Notices |
