posted 02-08-2008 04:52 PM            

I've greatly enjoyed the posts of everyone who's responded to the call to share your collections. I particularly enjoyed Olive the parakeet's exhibit; thanks, Polly! (see 'General Silver' forum)

The Silver Forums give ample testimony to the strength of the silver bug, and I can feel some of the symptoms coming on.

So I've tried to develop collecting goals that will let me enjoy the thrill of the hunt but that can also be justified, however weakly, on practical grounds. I've come up with two projects, the more practical of which is the focus for this post.

There are at least ten major versions of the Kings pattern in its "modern" American, double-struck form. The family silver already included two -- Peter Krider's and the Dominick & Haff version. At the same time, there are serving pieces that would be useful that I don't already have, or that are here in patterns I don't care for. So the idea was born to seek out serving pieces in each of the Kings versions.

The collection's already underway with an excellent Wallace 'Kings' (pat. 1903) cold meat fork and a considerably less excellent carving set in Reed & Barton 'Kings' (c. 1890). The rest of the quest:

1. 'Kings' pieces produced by John Wendt (1855-1870) and/or Adams & Shaw (1870s-1880). Wendt appears to have been the one who first patented the version later acquired by A&S, then acquired and re-patented by Dominick & Haff in 1880. This is supported by the picture on p. 124 of Noel Turner's American Silver Flatware 1837-1910, even though it's not the clearest image. Is there more information on Wendt's patent in any articles or books? Given that apparently Wendt didn't put his mark on much of his work, should I be on the lookout for 'Kings' pattern items marked Ball, Black & Co.?

2. John Polhamus (pat. 18??), Polhamus & Strong, and George W. Shiebler. According to a 1995 article by Janet Zapata & D. Albert Soeffing (and -- I'm guessing -- also Diana Cramer's 1990 article in Silver Magazine on Shiebler's patterns), this was one of the patterns Shiebler continued to make after acquiring Polhamus' business and patents in 1877. Images of 'Kings' pieces from all three makers offered at online sites bear this out. Does anyone have information on the date or patent number of Polhamus' Kings pattern?

3. Wood & Hughes 'New King' (pat. 1860) Expecting this to be a long wait...

4. Tiffany 'English King' (pat. 1885) Lots of it around, but my piece will probably have to be a salt spoon or the like, given the prices Tiffany items fetch.

5. Gorham 'Kings III' (pat. 1885) Available and fairly affordable in serving pieces of interest. Looking forward to seeing some in person on an upcoming trip.

6. International Silver 'Kings' (pat. 1886) It'll be a project to discover which of the companies that formed IS in 1898 patented the pattern. This appears to be the rarest of the turn-of-the-century 'Kings', but also not at all sought after. I believe that the drawing on p. 93 in the 1999 edition of Tere Hagan book, which makes the IS version appear identical to Tiffany's 'English King', is just wrong, but won't be in a position to say so flatly until I'm holding a counter-example in my hand.

7. Whiting 'Old King' (pat. 1890) This is also somewhat obscure; it may not have been made for long.

A question that occurs repeatedly: When did each of the big makers stop producing the pattern? Any tips on how to begin to find that out would be most welcome. What little information is out there is conflicting (e.g., a major pattern matching business lists Tiffany 'English King' as discontinued in 1955; Hagan has it still in production as of 1999).

No doubt I'll need to settle for non-serving pieces as examples of the pre-Civil War and scarcer versions, but those can be fitted into the place settings. (Already teaspoons are the most-often-used items in the service here.)

After I have one or two more examples, I'll post pictures of the different versions with notes on their distinguishing features.

Thanks to everyone who's shared information, images, and resources on this forum for the inspiration and the confidence to start on this very satisfying project.

posted 02-24-2008 04:36 PM            

The answer on p. 239 is 'yes':

quote:

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Except for a brief hiatus during World War II, the pattern has apparently been in continuous production since 1885.

English King was one of Tiffany's fullest lines. If a piece type were made at all, it is probably more likely to be found in this pattern than any other.

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Good news for my collecting project, of a kind. The bad news is the number of people out there willing to spend a month's income on a tomato server.

A check of the Tiffany website reveals that 'English King' is still being made and sold today, although their laughably information-free .pdf "catalog" provides no clue to what pieces are offered, prices, anything -- just arty photos.

posted 02-24-2008 05:35 PM            

Dies are a major capital item for a silver company. Some time ago I did a thread on current stainless production. In this I found that some older sterling and plate patterns are being produced in stainless. And that there are some old patterns that have been slightly modified in design. Check out Gorham's stainless patterns. And check the matching services to see if there are discontinued examples.

Two other quirks in the silver business to keep in mind. Silver companies will produce for a single buyer if the quantity is big enough. Thirty years ago, 10,000 place settings was the minimum. I strongly suspect that the amount has declined. There is one online source that has an endless supply of Love Disarmed. It is not listed on Reed and Barton's web site. But there it is. Keep an eye out for any retailer with pattern exclusives.

Second quirk. When discontinuing a pattern, the companies traditionally have made an enormous last run. They contact their retailers and ask for orders. The retailers then order everything in their bridal registry. Regional wholesalers take a large number of pieces for backup. Depending on silver price trends, the maker sometimes sits on the silver.

Then there are the local retailers. In my experience, traditional jewelers tended to stockpile and hoard. I personally knew jewelry stores advertizing and selling Rockford's Jewelers Crown Guild brand over 20 years after the company had gone out of business.

Finally, jewelers used to circulate letters. This would make the rounds of a number of jewelery stores. In it people would ask for discontinued items. Usually this was on a trade basis. Sort of like: have 8 seafood forks IS Wedgewood; need same IS Trianon. And a trade would go forward.

All of this gives the illusion, and the actual fact, of availibility long after things are no longer made.

Hope this helps. Agree about the Tiffany website. An eighth grade homeroom could do a better job.

posted 02-24-2008 08:59 PM            

The only sterling 'Kings' variant still being produced other than Tiffany's 'English King' is 'Queens' by Wallace. It's part of Wallace's "English line", patterns that were put out under the name of C.J. Vander but will now be marked Wallace.

There is no stainless version by any manufacturer. At a retailer site I saw a silverplate 'Queens' that I couldn't get a good look at (or discover the maker's name).

posted 02-24-2008 09:05 PM            

Future Venables and Turners will be grateful, and there's probably going to be even less of a paper trail for the twentieth and twenty-first centuries that there was for the nineteenth.

posted 02-25-2008 12:07 AM            

Kings has been the US Navy's pattern for over 100 years. Generally they use IS for their supply. I have seen this in sterling, plate and stainless. It would be listed under 'commercial' patterns. Restaurants also use Kings, in stainless.

posted 02-25-2008 01:11 AM            

Sample of large place setting:

posted 02-25-2008 05:39 PM            

Gorham recently discontinued a Kings pattern in stainless.

IS introduced a silverplated Kings pattern in 1977. It might be available today as a commercial pattern. They do produce a number of Kings serving pieces in a gift line. There website is a mess, nothing is up yet. In 2008, they have yet to put up an online catalog. No wonder they are now described as a gift maker.

There is another International Silver company on line. They specialize in body piercing items.

The Thomas J. Dodd Research Center has business records for MBC, various other predecessors of IS, and IS up until 1931 on hand.
International Silver Company Records

This looks interesting. They are not online, but can be accessed there.

posted 02-25-2008 07:12 PM            

Description Hallmarked Sterling Silver Price Silver Plate Price 18/10 Stainless Steel Price
Table Fork £63.00 £14.00 £8.50
Dessert Fork £54.00 £12.50 £7.50
Table Knife £44.00 £18.50 £14.50
Dessert Knife £43.00 £17.50 £13.50
Dessert Spoon £56.00 £13.50 £8.50
Soup Spoon £56.00 £13.50 £8.50
Tea Spoon £35.00 £8.00 £5.50
Coffee Spoon £26.00 £8.00 £5.00
Fish Fork £58.00 £13.50 £8.50
Fish Knife £58.00 £13.50 £8.50
Serving Spoon £83.00 £16.00 £9.50
7 piece place setting £351.00 £97.50 £66.50
10 piece place setting £493.00 £132.50 £88.50

Here is a photo of the pattern:

posted 02-25-2008 11:54 PM            

But however enjoyable, they're a digression, fixated as I am on sterling Kings patterns produced by U.S. makers.

'Kings' will never disappear in England, where it's been continuously produced since the late 1700s. It's also not very surprising to see it available in France, where the pattern started.

posted 02-26-2008 01:00 PM            

quote:

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what is the flower most often associated with the kings pattern?

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Honeysuckle?

posted 02-26-2008 01:13 PM            

It would probably take a trip to the Dodd Center to begin to pin down my main IS 'Kings' question, i.e.: Which of the many companies that formed IS patented their version of the pattern? The patent was issued, I believe, in 1886, but IS didn't form until 1898.

posted 02-26-2008 04:58 PM            

One point to understanding IS marks is this. IS did not begin as a unified company. It was a 'trust', a joining together of individual companies to form a monopoly. The marks of the different companies continue to this day to be used. So, it is entirely possible that Kings was patented by a number of the firms and produced with their own mark, not IS. Silver was produced this way at least into the 1970's if not longer. So, the IS Kings can have any of a large number of maker's marks.