The Queen of Mean Dined Keenly on the Sheen

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The Queen of Mean Dined Keenly on the Sheen

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Author	Topic: The Queen of Mean Dined Keenly on the Sheen
21Kimball Posts: 34 Registered: Apr 2007	posted 01-19-2008 09:10 AM [26-1566] I thought is might interest readers to see a copy of the Christie's inventory for Leona Helmsley's Tiffany flatware service in the San Lorenzo pattern, one that reached Edwardian proportions in the number of place and serving pieces despite its circa 1943 original purchase date: quote: MARK OF TIFFANY & CO., NEW YORK, CIRCA 1943 Lot Title AN EXTENSIVE SILVER AND SILVER-GILT FLATWARE SERVICE Estimate 20,000 - 30,000 U.S. dollars Price Realized 133,000 Saleroom Notice Please note that the pattern is San Lorenzo. Pre-lot Text PROPERTY FROM THE ESTATE OF LEONA HELMSLEY Lot Description AN EXTENSIVE SILVER AND SILVER-GILT FLATWARE SERVICE MARK OF TIFFANY & CO., NEW YORK, CIRCA 1943 Winthrop pattern, comprising: Eighteen game forks, with stainless steel tines Eighteen fish forks Eighteen ramekin forks Eighteen oyster forks Thirty-six entree forks Eighteen salad forks with silver-gilt tines Eighteen dinner forks Eighteen silver-gilt fruit forks Eighteen silver-gilt pastry forks Eighteen silver-gilt ice cream forks Eighteen berry forks with silver-gilt tines Eighteen fish knives, with stainless steel blades Thirty-six entree knives, with stainless steel blades Eighteen game knives, with stainless steel blades Eighteen dinner knives, with stainless steel blades Eighteen fruit knives, with silver-gilt blades Eighteen silver-gilt dessert knives Eighteen butter spreaders Eighteen tea knives, with stainless steel blades Twelve orange knives, with stainless steel blades Six salt spoons Eighteen fruit spoons, with silver-gilt bowls Eighteen sorbet spoons Eighteen soup spoons Eighteen silver-gilt coffee spoons Eighteen silver-gilt ice cream spoons Eighteen chocolate spoons Eighteen bouillon spoons Eighteen teaspoons Eighteen dessert spoons Eighteen iced tea spoons Twelve egg spoons, with silver-gilt bowls Twelve orange spoons, with silver-gilt bowls Thirty six afternoon teaspoons Six large serving spoons Six large serving forks Two large vegetable spoons Two large macaroni serving forks, with stainless steel blades Two large crumb scrapers, with stainless steel blades Eighteen small asparagus tongs Two pairs of large asparagus tongs Two large fish knives Two large fish forks Two gravy ladles Two olive forks Two olive spoons, with silver-gilt bowls Two jelly knives Eighteen lobster picks Two horseradish spoons, with silver-gilt bowls Two mustard spoons, with silver-gilt bowls One pair of ice tongs Two small sauce ladles Two caviar spoons A condiment spoon Two silver-gilt petit fours servers Two pairs of silver-gilt grape scissors Two silver-gilt cheese knives Two silver-gilt cheese servers Six silver-gilt bon bon spoons Two silver-gilt sugar sifters Two silver-gilt sugar tongs Two silver-gilt cream ladles Two silver-gilt pastry servers, with stainless steel blades Two silver-gilt ice cream servers Two salad spoons, with silver-gilt bowls Two salad forks, with silver-gilt tines One lettuce fork Two berry spoons, one with pierced bowl Two cold meat forks Two large preserve spoons One bread fork One ice spoon One egg server One pea server One waffle server One pie knife, with stainless steel blade One punch ladle, with silver-gilt bowl One oyster ladle One soup ladle One potato chip server One chafing dish spoon, with part-ivory handle One chafing dish fork, with part-ivory handle One gravy spoon One roast fork, with stainless steel blade One pair of game shears, with stainless steel blade One pair of game carver and fork, with stainless steel blades One pair of meat carver and fork, with stainless steel blades One sharpening steel, with stainless steel blade Two cucumber servers Two jelly spoons Three sandwich tongs One cheese scoop One sugar spoon One sardine fork One lemon fork One pair of sugar tongs Two tomato servers Six pairs of nutcrackers, with stainless steel grips Twelve nut picks, in a fitted canteen with brass mounts, on stand, with dated and inscribed plaque 851 oz. 10 dwt. weighable silver (801) IP: Logged
blakstone Posts: 493 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 01-19-2008 07:06 PM Well, the rich are different, but what startles me is that this sort of extravagance could have been rationalized during the middle of WWII! IP: Logged
ellabee Posts: 306 Registered: Dec 2007	posted 01-20-2008 01:31 AM What struck me, aside from the scale, is the prevalence of stainless working ends. I wondered if Tiffany offered that as a regular thing, or only special order. Surely a special order at that time, because didn't stainless only become more widely available after the war? IP: Logged
taloncrest Posts: 169 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 01-20-2008 11:03 AM Stainless knife blades were pretty common at least as early as the 1920's. They did cost more than silverplated ones. Some of the other stainless-ended pieces do make me wonder, such as the macaroni serving forks. IP: Logged
21Kimball Posts: 34 Registered: Apr 2007	posted 01-20-2008 11:09 AM quote: Originally posted by blakstone: Well, the rich are different, but what startles me is that this sort of extravagance could have been rationalized during the middle of WWII! Neither Harry nor Leona Helmsley seem to have had enough money yet in the early 1940s to have been the original purchasers but the Christie's page provided no further provenance. If I recall correctly, silver was basically rationed during the war as a strategic metal and I'm surprised that even Tiffany's could manage a service of this scale and scope then. IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 01-20-2008 12:03 PM 21Kimball, Once upon a time in my youth I was a coin collector and I remember that during the war years, 1942-1945, the U.S. Mint took most of the nickel, if not all, out of the 5 cent piece and replaced it with silver. I believe that silver was one of the more abundant metals and not as necessary as other metals, i.e., nickel, for the war effort. IP: Logged
21Kimball Posts: 34 Registered: Apr 2007	posted 01-20-2008 01:36 PM My notes on Renee Garrelick's 1998 volume, Sterling Seasons: The Reed & Barton Story indicate only during WWII that silver plating was performed directly on steel due to metal shortages. As I do not own a copy of the book, I'm not sure if I'm extrapolating from that to mean that silver itself was in short supply. However, having silver manufacturers gear to producing metal items for the war effort, combined with labor shortages, and lack of traditional market, point to major sterling services such as that which would one day become the Helmsley's, becoming rare during the war years. Perhaps the Helmsley's represented unsold Tiffany inventory from before the war. [This message has been edited by 21Kimball (edited 01-20-2008).] IP: Logged
Kayvee Posts: 204 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 01-20-2008 03:20 PM Did anyone happen to look at the marks on this set? According to Carpenter, a star mark was used on Tiffany silverware that was made of domestically produced silver between 1943 and 1945. I have seen such a mark on some of the serving pieces of my mother's wedding silver that were purchased in early 1946. So if The Queen of Mean's Tiffany flatware dates from the WWII period, we could expect it to have had the star mark. From everything I have read, silver was indeed in short supply during the war as this metal was required for use in tubing for the then-new radar technology. IP: Logged
ellabee Posts: 306 Registered: Dec 2007	posted 01-20-2008 04:53 PM Here's a theory: The family that ordered the set offered up some silver of their own to be melted for this new pattern. The prevalence of stainless ends was to hold down the amount of silver needed. IP: Logged
taloncrest Posts: 169 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 01-20-2008 11:33 PM I do have a copy of Sterling Seasons, and it shows two wartime ads. One of them states: "War means that silver manufacture is confined to the most commonly used pieces, such as knives, forks, spoons and butter spreaders...which are available today. But remember that when war is over, you can complete your service and add all those pieces which are temporarily unobtainable." But they seem to have done a lot of war production, so that probably took up most of their production capability. If I remember correctly, silverplate was unavailable at all to the public during the war. IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1627 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 01-22-2008 12:06 PM Silver was not considered a strategic metal during WW II and silver bullion was fairly inexpensive. During most of the war it sold for only 45 cents an ounce which was about the price of mailing a letter overseas by airmail. Dimes, quarters and half-dollars were minted from silver throughout the war. For example, the walking liberty half-dollar silver coins (90 percent silver) were minted in their greatest numbers throughout the first seven years of the 1940s including the war years until they stopped making them in 1947. The value of this particular silver from this era is more in the artistic merit of the work, combined with the added perceived value of things sold by Tiffany, and then magnified by the perceived value of something that was owned by a colorful and semi-infamous personage. IP: Logged
ellabee Posts: 306 Registered: Dec 2007	posted 01-22-2008 02:41 PM So the limiting factor was not the silver itself, but the room on the production lines? That makes the large array of serving pieces all the more remarkable, as well as the stainless ends (assuming, as I do in my ignorance, that production of mixed-metal pieces would involve at least an extra step compared with solid silver pieces). I'm wondering if there's any chance the set was actually produced in 1941, before war production took over... IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1627 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 01-22-2008 04:57 PM I think the limiting factor, if there was one, would have been related more to the fact that so many men were being called up for service and leaving the workforce. Silverware makers were not going to be exempted from the draft like some other professions that were considered crucial to the war effort. Another factor may have simply been that people had less interest in buying elaborate sets of silver by that point in history. The Victorian era was long past and people were no longer into being sure they had such elaborate servings for so many people. I also wonder who was making silver for Tiffany at that point. Does anyone know when Tiffany stopped making their own silverware and began buying it from other companies and then slapping the Tiffany name on it? I'm not a Tiffany expert at all. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 01-22-2008 05:10 PM War time Silversmith Ephemera: WWII Wallace Silversmiths IP: Logged
21Kimball Posts: 34 Registered: Apr 2007	posted 01-22-2008 06:09 PM quote: Originally posted by Kimo: Another factor may have simply been that people had less interest in buying elaborate sets of silver by that point in history. The Victorian era was long past and people were no longer into being sure they had such elaborate servings for so many people. . Wartime food rationing proved another limiting factor. Few rich people in the US then still had food-producing country estates and despite black markets were subject to the same rationing as everyone else. I believe it was the recent bio of Alice Roosevelt that noted that the standard formal dinner went down to four courses during WWII, and in Washington society it would have been considered unpatriotic to exceed that limit. IP: Logged
21Kimball Posts: 34 Registered: Apr 2007	posted 01-22-2008 06:16 PM quote: Originally posted by ellabee: That makes the large array of serving pieces all the more remarkable, .... I'm wondering if there's any chance the set was actually produced in 1941, before war production took over... I think it's entirely possible that the set represented pre-war or even pre-Depression inventory and/or the pieces with stainless "business ends" beyond standard knives were later additions to the set and Christies only supplied basic info on the initial purchase. I'd be interested to know when stainless "business ends" replaced those of silver for reasons of economy, strength, or corrosion resistance as in salad servers IP: Logged
Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 Registered: May 99	posted 01-24-2008 10:56 AM The stainless steel blades, to my mind, point to a production date close to the stated date of 1943, and not old inventory. I have seen (and actually own) Tiffany dinner knives with stainless steel blades that are of the same, straight round-end form you see on old plated blades. They are different from the later, slightly serpentine (?) stainless blades. Does any of the silver have the five-pointed star mark that indicates it was made of American silver during the war years? I do have two Tiffany pieces with that mark--both given to my parents as wedding gifts in 1945. IP: Logged
Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 Registered: May 99	posted 01-24-2008 10:59 AM Oh, as an additional comment: costume jewelers, who worked in base metal, were forced to use sterling silver during the 1943-1948 years. So silver itself was not hard to get during the war. And as to rich people rationalizing lavish outlay--while the lifestyle this service suggests was indeed on the wane, even for the rich, in the 1940s, a few traditionalist MOTHERS might well have wanted her precious war bride to have the whole kit and caboodle. I'm just sorry it wasn't in the Century pattern--then you'd have a museum piece. And it would have sold for more! IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 01-24-2008 12:30 PM Kimo, The sale of Tiffany to Avon in the late 1970s was a turning point and not for the positive. After Avon sold it in the mid 1980s is when the new owners began jobbing out the silver production. IP: Logged
Dale Posts: 2132 Registered: Nov 2002	posted 01-29-2008 05:40 PM During the war, the silver factories were converted to war production. IS made bomb parts. Turns out the machinery and skills were transferable to fine metal work. The stainless ended ones may have been gifts over a period of time. IP: Logged
ellabee Posts: 306 Registered: Dec 2007	posted 02-24-2008 02:00 PM More on the stainless working ends... This jumped out at me from William Hood's Tiffany Silver Flatware: quote: The Blue Book of 1917 ... was the first to announce the availability of 'non-rusting' blades. Carbon steel rendered stain-resisting by the addition of chromium had been introduced in Sheffield, England in 1914 but was somewhat slow to catch on due to early problems in achieving and maintaining a sharp blade edge. Tiffany's steel blades were imported from Sheffield, and it is probably that Tiffany was one of the first (if not the first) of the American manufacturers to make available the non-rusting variety, most other U.S. silver makers not providing this option before the early 1920s. In 1917, plain steel blades were still offered by Tiffany, but plated blades were dropped from the line. We think stainless blades became standard in the twenties. This bears out what taloncrest said above; stainless simply became an option for Tiffany customers much earlier than I'd thought. The many non-knife pieces with stainless ends could have been acquired after 1943, by the original owners or the Helmsleys. I'd think the Sheffield plant went to war production years before Tiffany, and that the demand for chromium put a big crimp in export-bound grapefruit spoon end production well before 1943. IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 02-24-2008 07:55 PM This is nit picking, but 'non-rusting' blades were listed as early as the 1915 Blue Book (copyrighted 1914). This would give strong support to the belief that Tiffany was the first in America to use these blades. IP: Logged
TrophySleuth Posts: 7 Registered: Mar 2008	posted 03-03-2008 12:09 AM My 90-years-young friend Eve worked in Providence, RI during WWII and her 1943 wedding flatware was Gorham's Greenbriar (sp?) pattern. She purchased additional place settings to increase her set to twelve, and a friend at Gorham told her to get all she could, because Gorham was going to stop making the SS blades due to the fact that SS was needed for war materiel. As a newbie, admittedly "I don't know nothing 'bout no silver," but looking at one of her teaspoons, its raised marks say: GORHAM STERLING PAT.1938 with a stamped R at the end. She's a mean cook, but that's where any comparison to the Dear Departed Leona ends. TG IP: Logged

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