SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
American Sterling Silver Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  American Sterling Silver
tline3open  William Smith Pelletreau Mark?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   William Smith Pelletreau Mark?
SusanT

Posts: 104
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 08-20-2007 10:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SusanT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-1481]

I have a pair of silver-plated clothes brushes that came down to me from my grandmother.

I'm hoping someone can verify or correct who I think was the manufacturer - William Smith Pelletreau. Both brushes are marked on edge: "W.S.P. CO".

Is this the mark of W.S. Pelletreau (1786-1842) of Southampton, NY? Ensko, pp. 104, 250 has "W.S.P."; Kovel, pp. 288, 189, has "WSP"; American Silversmiths online database William Smith Pelletreau has "WSP"; and

has him paired with Stephen Upson and their mark as "P & U". Pelletreau isn't listed in Rainwater.

None of the above mark examples have "CO" included in the mark.

Description of the brushes:
5"1 x 1½"w x 1½"h. May be original brushes? Decorated with a raised floral/foliate design.

--- Susan

IP: Logged

silverhunter

Posts: 704
Registered: Jul 2007

iconnumber posted 08-21-2007 01:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverhunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Short reaction(?), If you post your topic more than once it's good for my side I learn better with the possibility for understand all that English conversations at this forum. Sometimes it's a hard fight for to get the pictures to be posted. (It's also a problem sometimes over here).

I have only one silver book(with little information) so I often look at the websites.When you try, you perhaps have something like to find Joslin Hall-bookcase 6 [P-R] Northampton Smith College or Art:1958. A elegant little catalog of choice pieces. There were 82 pieces of Pelletrau silver in the exhibition.

But it is better when you get direct information from experts from this SMP forum of course,and it's good to get always reaction so I did it my way(nice song title!) It's a beautiful piece, and for that age in good condition(said the doctor).

There are a lot of books made in the USA that's for sure. I found a lot of titles, we are poor illustrated over here in the Netherlands (holland).

What I also thought about reading your story, that CO means co-operation with another firm in that time they have made it.

A lot of success I hope the reactions will follow and the solution will come.

IP: Logged

wev
Moderator

Posts: 4046
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 08-21-2007 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The mark is for Wilcox Silver Plate Company of Meriden CT.

IP: Logged

Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11202
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 08-21-2007 09:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Susan,

Good job getting the photos posted correctly. I have deleted your duplicate posts in this thread.

Your conclusions about this mark are very far from the mark wink .

You need to spend more time reading older threads in this forum and building (and reading) a library that supports you particular interests in silver. If silver plate is your interest then get to know more about that industry. Electro Silver Plating was invented circa 1840 in England. It was a several more years before it came to America. On that basis alone it couldn't be Pelletreau.

Just matching initials to a name is not enough. An understanding of what the marks shape (cartouche), lettering style and other nuances are telling you, are often very relevant in determining a maker. But the first place to start is with the object itself. Is the brush solid silver or silver plate? You have identified it as silver plate and I am assuming that is because some of the base metal is showing. Next what is the object and when were such objects made? What does the styling of the object say about when it was made. Etc, etc. etc.

I love your enthusiasm and understand the excitement that comes with the discovery process. In the beginning of my silver education, people were too polite and never said anything. So it took me much longer to learn what I needed to know to begin to learn. And I continue to learn as nearly every day I learn something new about our shared passion.

You will also find that information on the Internet or found in books can be inaccurate or wrong. But this is another lengthy subject for a different post/thread.

If you don't own a copy of Dorothy Rainwater's Encyclopedia of American Silver Manufacturers (it does include some makers from Canada and elsewhere) get a copy. It is not expensive. I recommend the Fourth Edition (newer versions are good if you are researching new silver smiths).

I have not researched your object or mark but a quick look in Rainwater suggests it is as WEV says or maybe it is Canadian. I am not saying who the Canadian possibility is so you can have the fun of discovering it for yourself.

IP: Logged

ahwt

Posts: 2022
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 08-21-2007 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A great learning experience is to go to antique shows and talk to silver dealers showing their wares. Silver dealers love silver and they also like to talk about silver. Ask them questions and I think you will find them eager to answer them with enthusiasm. Also do not be apprehensive in picking up the silver items and feel their weight and balance.

The whole learning experience should be fun and I believe that it is more enjoyable to do a lot of talking before buying. One can also meet some very interesting people in the process.

IP: Logged

SusanT

Posts: 104
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 08-21-2007 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SusanT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Silverhunter,

Thank you for taking the time to look in your resources! Good luck on your silver experiences.

WEV,

Thank you for correcting the manufacturer and telling me it is Wilcox Silver Plate!!!

Scott,

Thank you for deleting my mistakes!! Also thank you for the many suggestions in silver research.

You need to spend more time reading older threads in this forum...

Right on, in pointing out about reading/searching threads. I really messed up. If I had run a search on "W.S.P.Co" on all the forums, I would have found that last year I posted the same query on these brushes! <Dumb, Dumb me>
W.S.P.CO. stamp on Clothes Brushes

At that time there wasn't a consensus of the mfg. but Wilcox was thought the most promising.

...and building (and reading) a library that supports you particular interests in silver.

I have been working at building a library the last three years. At this moment have:

  • Encyclopedia of Amer. Silver Mfgs., 5th edition, by Rainwater
  • American Silverplate, 3rd edition, by Rainwater w/Felger
  • Amer. Silversmiths & Their Marks, 1948 edition, by Ensko
  • Amer. Silver Marks, 1989, by Kovels
  • Tardy's International Hallmarks on Silver, 5th edition
  • Jackson's Hallmarks, Pocket Edition, edited by Pickford
  • Sheffield Plate, 1969 printing, by Wyler
  • Book of Old Silver, 1959, by Wyler

I had checked these books and online sites for the mark W.S.P.CO with no luck. All I could find that came close was Pelletier's mark of W.S.P. If I had known or if I had gone back and search the forums, I would have done research on Wilcox S.P. Today have done extensive research on Wilcox S.P. and still can't find the mark of only W.S.P.CO credited to them.

I have not researched your object or mark but a quick look in Rainwater suggests it is as WEV says or maybe it is Canadian. I am not saying who the Canadian possibility is so you can have the fun of discovering it for yourself.

I will go through Rainwater page by page and see if I can spot the Canadian; however, with WEV saying Wilcox S.P., that is what I'm going with at this time.

Ahwt, thank you for your advise also!

Again thank y'all for taking the time to reply!

--- Susan

IP: Logged

Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 08-22-2007 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is one of the most common patterns in silverplated brushes. Which tells me it was made for a long time. And sold by catalog. I have seen it with other marks, Derby as I recall. Wilcox was part of the Meriden Brittania complex, so it is not surprising that a number of marks appear. The mirrors in this line are especially attractive.

Vanity items appear to have been sold not only through the regular channels but also along with cosmetics. So, there probably was one mark for jewelers and another for cosmetics. It is also probable that vanity items were packaged with toilitries: a hair rinse with a brush and comb.

From the ones I have handled, my guess is this pattern was made into the 1930's.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2019 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices