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Author Topic:   Lily pattern
ahwt

Posts: 2124
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-16-2018 10:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[19-1589 13-1292]




My youngest daughter haunts the thrift stores and found some good things this time just in time for father’s day.

The Whiting lily pattern has a very heavy asparagus server that I think could be enlisted to serve all kinds of things. This was a very welcome addition.

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ahwt

Posts: 2124
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-17-2018 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Scott I put this in the wrong section as it is sterling. I posted too late last night.

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Scott Martin
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iconnumber posted 06-17-2018 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll move this...

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ahwt

Posts: 2124
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-17-2018 12:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Scott, I was excited last night at my daughter’s finds as she got them all for the price of a hotdog combo at Costco.
I need to send the Thrift Store a donation.

[This message has been edited by ahwt (edited 06-17-2018).]

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asheland

Posts: 917
Registered: Nov 2003

iconnumber posted 06-18-2018 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Splendid piece and terrific score!

I recently found a piece in this pattern also. Mine is a ladle and while it wasn't as cheaply purchased, I did get mine for the melt price which is still a screaming deal. biggrin

Congrats!

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park1226

Posts: 88
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 06-18-2018 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for park1226     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seems like bargain pieces of Whiting Lily are turning up all over the place. I bought these sardine tongs at slightly above melt at a house sale last week. They were just scattered on the table with pieces of stainless and plate.

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asheland

Posts: 917
Registered: Nov 2003

iconnumber posted 06-19-2018 11:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice!

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ahwt

Posts: 2124
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-19-2018 11:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think the Lily pattern went out of production for some time and made a comeback when it was reintroduced in 1980. I cannot tell any difference in quality between the old version and the new production, but collectors seem to prefer the original one that references the 1902 patent date.
In my opinion it is a very lively, lighthearted pattern that is perfect for informal times. It really is a joyful design.

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asheland

Posts: 917
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iconnumber posted 06-20-2018 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I actually like the pattern too. It's nice!

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Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1758
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 06-27-2018 11:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've had several pieces of this pattern (in the days when I used to do some flatware dealing) and my favorite piece was the stuffing spoon. It was fabulous. Massive and heavy, rich dimensional detailing--one of those things that makes you love antique flatware. It must have been over 15 years ago but I can still remember how it felt to hold.

On a darker note, there have been many shoddy recasts of this pattern--usually the larger serving pieces. They are horrendous and easily spotted, but I have seen them falsely listed as the real thing on some sites.

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ahwt

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Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 08-14-2018 07:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


These are dessert size spoons in the Lily pattern and I think are interesting as one has the 1902 patent noted on the reverse while the other must have been made a year or two before 1902 as it says patent pending. We found the 6 “patent pending” ones this weekend in Atlanta and already had 6 of the ones with the 1902 patent noted.

The 6 with the pending notice all weight exactly 50 grams each for a total of 300 grams, while the other six range in weight from 48 to 51 grams for a total of 294 grams. I do not know what this means for their quality control for weight, but I think at the time this were made silver was fairly low in price.

The R’D mark may refer to registration for a trademark.

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Scott Martin
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iconnumber posted 08-14-2018 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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ahwt

Posts: 2124
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iconnumber posted 09-11-2018 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote



The Lily pattern by Whiting and later by Gorham has more variations than I realized. The pictured knifes are all different length and size. We just found out that these knives are made in a banquet size that is over 10 ½ “long. This version also has an oversized handle that has a slightly different pattern that the smaller knives. The top two knives have the 1902 date on them while the bottom one does not. The bottom two knives seem to have the same handle, however one is longer as it has what is called a booster between the blade and the handle.

There is also pictured a server that may be called a pasta/macaroni server or maybe a tomato server. It is not the 1902 version as that one has a more decorative bowl.

It is interesting to me that so many sizes and versions were made in this pattern. I am not really familiar with other patterns of this time period and that may have been common practice during this time period. Any thoughts on this?

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Polly

Posts: 1910
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 09-23-2018 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My grandmother liked that pattern, and I have a few of her pieces, I believe including some knives. I will look.

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ahwt

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Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 09-23-2018 11:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It really was a full line as Whiting including many pieces that would only be used very rarely.
One thing I have noticed is that some of the larger pieces have been reproduced by counterfeiters. The ones I have seen have been cast and are easily spotted. They look good until seen under a loop.

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ahwt

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Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 09-25-2018 01:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Above is a photo of the back of a Lily pattern spoon that is authentic and below is the back stamp on a counterfeit Lily piece.

This counterfeit piece was really very attractive and just looking at it without a loop I could not tell that is was not real. Under a loop however the Whiting mark and reference to the 1902 date were not readable. In some of counterfeit pieces that have seen these marks were just removed completely. The roughness in the casting carried over to the crevices of the flowers as I guess it would have been too time consuming to polish everything.

Some of the silver dealers that I know have actually scraped these counterfeits and some sell them as fakes at greatly reduced pieces. It is always buyers beware, but I would think scrapping would be a better way to just get them off the market.

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asheland

Posts: 917
Registered: Nov 2003

iconnumber posted 09-26-2018 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've seen counterfeit silverware too. Usually Tiffany. Luckily any experienced collector or dealer can spot this trash and I agree it SHOULD be melted down!

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ahwt

Posts: 2124
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 09-26-2018 11:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Selling these for scrape would probably not get them melted down and off the market. Someone at the scraper would see a profit and put them on the market again. They may or may not recognize them as fakes so I do not think it is just a question of doing the right thing.
An engraving on the back saying "Fake" or "Counterfeit" may be better. I have seen these advertised for sale and the dealer has always been honest in saying they were fakes. I wonder if they do anything to stop the next purchaser from being fooled?

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asheland

Posts: 917
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iconnumber posted 09-27-2018 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You could always deface them with a hammer before selling to the scrapper. My friend Tom who runs a coin shop sends his stuff directly to the refiner. Not sure if anyone there would pull this stuff, I guess it's a possibility...

However beaten with a hammer would definitely do the trick! biggrin

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ahwt

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Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 01-15-2019 09:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote




The last Whiting Lily soup ladle we brought turned out to be a reproduction, but this one seems to be the real thing. I think it is a very attractive pattern and is surprisingly heavy. At 308 grams it is on the heavy side for ladles we own. I think all of our other soup ladles were made before 1860 so it may be that ladles just got heavier as time went by.

We have one other Lily piece that has the Patent applied mark on it which just means it was made before Whiting switched over to identifying the year they obtained their patent. Whiting obtained their design patent in 1902, but they might have waited some time before they started marking their silver to reflect this.

This is going to be used for a Louisiana gumbo later on this week and it should be perfect for that purpose.

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asheland

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iconnumber posted 01-16-2019 10:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's a terrific ladle and it looks absolutely genuine to me. Great find!

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Scott Martin
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iconnumber posted 01-16-2019 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ditto

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lisa

Posts: 63
Registered: Sep 99

iconnumber posted 01-26-2019 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lisa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is one of the patterns from this time period that I try to stay away from due to the reproductions & poor strikes. Online buying is especially sketchy. There are many other patterns that weren't overly produced like this one.

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ahwt

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Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 01-27-2019 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


We usually look for silver from before 1860 or so, but recently started looking for the Lily pattern. By the time this pattern came around it clear that more was not enough. Above are some of the spoons that Whiting made for this pattern.

The third from the left is an ice cream fork and to its right is an ice spoon. Next to the ice cream spoon is what Whiting calls a 5 o’clock spoon that is just a little shorter than the teaspoon. I think the 5 o’clock was for afternoon tea while the ice cream fork, I think was for use when one had cake and ice cream at the same time.

The big spoon on the top was not a platter spoon, but instead is part of a salad serving set that includes a large fork. I know they also made a mustard spoon and I suspect they made egg spoons.

I wonder which silver manufacture made the most pieces for a single pattern?

Lisa you are right that you have to be careful in buying this pattern. We just buy if we see it in person or if the seller has a good return policy.

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ahwt

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Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-11-2019 12:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


We had a good time in Atlanta this weekend and found a couple of Whiting Lily pieces. The one above is called a jelly cake roll server. Jelly cake rolls must have been fairly poplar as several silver manufacturers made one for their regular patterns. I remember jelly rolls as a child, but I must admit I have not seen one in a long time. The Lily one has very nice engraving on the blade and the other ones I have seen have also been beautifully decorated. I imagine these servers would have been used with a dessert set of your finest china.



This server is called a marmalade server and is quite a bit larger than a normal jelly server. The last picture shows a berry spoon next to this marmalade server just for size comparison. The designs are similar with the berry spoon just being larger in all aspects.

Marmalade is a clear thick preserve made with citrus fruits, usually containing the shredded rind of the fruit.
It was a good weekend for finding pieces for serving sweet things.

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H Bradshaw

Posts: 30
Registered: Mar 2015

iconnumber posted 03-11-2019 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for H Bradshaw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Beautiful silver- it's impressive to see old pieces after so many years of viewing mostly fakes/new manufacture.

This is the first time I've heard the term 'Marmalade Server/Spoon'; I collect florals from this era but usually not this pattern. What is the length, if you don't mind measuring.

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ahwt

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iconnumber posted 03-11-2019 07:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The berry spoon is 9 1/8" long with a
3 1/2"X3 1/4" bowl. The marmalade 7 5/8" long with a bowl 2 3/4" x 2 1/4". We have a smaller spoon of the same design that is 5 7/8" with a bowl 1 5/8" x 2". The smaller spoon seems to be the right size for a jelly/marmalade spoon, but from what I have been told Whiting named the middle size one as the marmalade server. Maybe they just like sweet things in larger amounts.
When I get a chance I will post a picture of the smaller one.

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ahwt

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iconnumber posted 03-11-2019 10:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

These serving spoons all have the same design and vary only in size.

We have thought of the small one as a sugar spoon, but it could be used for other things including marmalade or jelly.

The dies used during the time period Whiting made these produced very crisp designs. The same could be said of silver-plated flatware of this time period. Everything seemed in focus for the silver manufacturers at this time.

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ahwt

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iconnumber posted 03-11-2019 10:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote




Here is one last post for awhile for the Lily pattern. This is called an olive spoon by Whiting. The stem is much narrower than used on their other pieces and instead of flowers Whiting filled the stem with a series of overlapping leaves. As a result it has a very graceful linear appearance.

Silver from this time period is rather new to me as I normally have been interested in silver before 1860.

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H Bradshaw

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Registered: Mar 2015

iconnumber posted 03-11-2019 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for H Bradshaw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Judging by the size, I think your Marmalade Spoon is what many companies refer to as a Preserve Spoon which is larger than a Jelly Spoon (6.5+") & smaller than a Berry (sometimes made in several sizes). Smaller still is the Sugar Spoon which is usually around 6" & that may be the purpose of your smaller spoon.

Unless you have an old catalog, it's anybody's guess what pieces were made or what they were called but with a large pattern like Lily,it's bound to provide lots of collecting enjoyment.

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H Bradshaw

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iconnumber posted 03-11-2019 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for H Bradshaw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fabulous olive spoon!

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ahwt

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iconnumber posted 03-12-2019 12:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your comments. It is a nice spoon and I think they also made a olive fork.

Luckily Oliver Larrabee did not have an olive spoon or one of the great scenes of the movie Sabrina would not have be shot.

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ahwt

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iconnumber posted 07-17-2019 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


I normally like silver that was made before1830 or 1840, but the Lily pattern by Whiting is one that for some reason I really like.
The uppermost picture has knives in this pattern of varying size. We recently brought the lower two in this picture and they are probably called banquet size as they are 10 ¾ inches long. Whiting also made one slightly smaller (10 ½” long) knife that has a different style blade. It also has something that between the handle and the blade that is called a booster. I have no idea why two knives so close in size were made. Maybe the style of the blade determined when it was used.

The upper two knives in this picture probably today would be called dinner and luncheon size.

The last two pictures show a pea spoon. We have never had spoon before just for peas. I do not know if this is something that Whiting just made or if all of the silver manufacturers of this time made one.

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ahwt

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iconnumber posted 09-13-2019 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

t

My wife was looking through her tea strainers and found this one she had forgotten about. It is in the Lily pattern and marked with the Whiting mark. Sterling and the number 7219.
It does not have the 1902 patent date on it so I guess it was made sometime after Whiting stopped using that mark.

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ahwt

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iconnumber posted 10-16-2019 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Whiting made quite a few serving pieces for this pattern when it was issued. This spoon was initially called a fried egg server as that is what dealers seem to call it; but it really could be used to serve many foods.

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ahwt

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iconnumber posted 11-13-2019 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

The spoon shown above is called a sardine fork and we brought some sardines to try it out. I think Whiting and other silver companies at the time this was made when out of their way to have a different utensil for every possible purpose.

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ahwt

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iconnumber posted 12-30-2019 04:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Whiting made just about everything that might be useful with their Lily pattern. From bottom to top here are a two tine butter pick, a confection spoon and a fried oyster server.
The oyster server is marked Whiting only without the 1902. I really do not know when Whiting dropped the 1902 mark. I think the design patent term was 14 years at this time so the patent would have expired in 1916. Companies were not quick to delete patent notices so I could see the reference to 1902 lasting for some years after 1916.
I think the most that can be said is that it was made before Gorham started using their mark.

[This message has been edited by ahwt (edited 12-30-2019).]

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