posted 10-15-2004 02:10 PM            

Did anyone see this curious item on eBay? It's a well-worn 1810 U.S. half cent coin, counterstamped on the obverse with the mark of William Ball, Jr. of Baltimore.

quote:

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1810 Counterstamped Half Cent

1810 Half Cent counterstamped W BALL host coin grades very good lite porosity medium brown color. There is a silversmith listed as Whilliam Ball Jr Market St Baltimore MD from 1763-1815.

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I've seen US coins with silversmiths' marks a few times before, but they were always silver coins (usually US or Spanish dollars), and I assumed that they had been marked because the silversmith was attesting to their weight and fineness. Obviously, that wouldn't be the case with a half-cent.

Are there any theories as to why silversmiths did this? Was it just for advertising?

Adam

posted 10-15-2004 04:11 PM            

1. They were used as advertizement.

2. They were used to test their stamp.

This is a link to a website dedicated to counterstamped coins: Complete List of Countermarked Coins: A-C

I do know they are collected and there is a fine book documenting the known examples of counterstamped coins. This is the title of the book.

Merchant and Privately Countermarked Coins
Advertising on the World's Smallest Billboards
By Gregory G. Brunk

I own an 18th century New Jersey copper large cent with the intials GH.

Many of these initials are unknown since they may have been marks of blacksmiths and other tradesmen.

Fred

posted 10-15-2004 07:41 PM            

Or samples of a smith's mark passed around as vouchers of his work or for others to be on the lookout for stolen marked items (there was a lot of illiteracy in those days).

Many possibilities, and probably many reasons.

posted 10-19-2004 04:09 PM            

"Smaug"

posted 12-04-2004 09:31 PM            

I found this site during a web search. I am the person who purchased the 1810 U.S. Half Cent that was countermarked by William Ball. This coin was previously sold in a Bowers & Merena auction about 10 years ago (I was outbid then, but not this time!).

There are over 250 silversmith countermarked coins in my collection, and many hundreds of additional countermarks that were stamped by other merchants and craftsmen.

Silversmiths countermarked coins for many reasons, only a few of which are known to us today. Many were issued as an inexpensive form of advertisement. Simply stamp coins as they come into the shop, and then put them back into the cash register.

But I must say that, overall, countermarked coins remain somewhat of a mystery. We simply do not know why the majority of them were stamped, and most people assume that it was for advertising. I really enjoy researching the issuers of countermarked coins, which is why I collect them.

posted 12-06-2004 02:13 PM            

What a great topic for a book on American Silversmiths. 250 marks is not a small amount and might make a fascinating book. The date of the coins help idnetify a time frame that may prove interesting to researchers. I suspect you are documenting your collection. Perhaps you could give us a scope of the silversmiths covered in your collection.

posted 12-06-2004 11:38 PM            

Silversmiths countermarked any and all coins that were in circulation at the time they were working. This includes lots of foreign coins, since they were the majority of coins in circulation in the U.S. for many years.

The earliest known countermark by a U.S. silversmith dates from the 1780's. They continued to be made right up until the late 19th century.

I have been gathering tons of information on this topic - probably enough for a book! I also collect examples of early American silverware that have the same marks.

I recently acquired some additional silversmith countermarks. One has the name GULATINE stamped in raised letters within a rectangular depression on a 1781 Irish halfpence. This is probably a U.K. countermark - I have not researched it yet.

Another recent find has the name "H.SAFFORD" stamped in raised letters within a rectangular depression on a 1805 U.S. Half Cent. This one was made by Harry Safford, an early Ohio silversmith. I could post an image of this one if someone could tell me how.

posted 12-07-2004 02:42 AM            

Somewhere buried in my notes is mention of the mark of a Western Pennsylvania silversmith/clockmaker (many were both) whose only known mark (as far as I know) appears stamped on a clock movement, so we know he had a punch, at least, even if no silver has yet turned up. So I, for one, look forward to seeing more of these!

posted 12-07-2004 10:27 AM            

What a great idea! I could take a few dollars worth of pennies and mark them all and put them into circulation. Then I could make claims of having my work in the hands of hundreds of people. My resume would sing!

I have never used coins to test my maker's mark nor stamped them for advertizing. I guess I just don't have the flair for business.

posted 12-07-2004 10:43 AM            

Sorry couldn't help it....

"Smaug"

posted 12-07-2004 10:53 AM            

I hope to find one in my change someday.

I suggest you develop a protocol and documentation. For example: Stamp only a particular year which has some significance to you. And /or coins from a particular mint. Stamp in a particular way/place on the coin. Keep track of how many and what years are in circulation and where/when you put it into circulation. If possible number each uniquely.

This could become the next great collectable. And in the long run historically significant.

Before history takes over, think of how much fun for all of us. It is kind of the “message in a bottle”... Wouldn’t it be great to have photos of your stamped coins posted here by SSF members with the date and place found?

posted 12-07-2004 01:52 PM            

You are right. I think I will use $20 gold bullion coins.

On a serious note. What is the legality of this proposal? Is it considered defacing?

I could mint my own coinage.... Hmmm wonder how many years I could get in the slammer....

You know this is a great idea. I will look into making a small silver medalion with a hand struck image and mark it wih my stamp for any forum members who want it.
I might even make a swage with a bug. That way Paul will want it for sure.

posted 12-07-2004 07:12 PM            

As to Scott's proposal, there is already a version of this online (albeit less artistic than what he suggests): Where's George?

I wonder, indeed, if part of the counter stamping phenomenon had to do with the fact that in pre-auto days, the same penny would circulate around the same town for weeks on end, instead of flying wildly around the country as the "Georges" do today. As soon as William Ball's half-cent left the greater Baltimore region, it wouldn't do him much good as advertisement, would it?

And thanks to Bob M. for his very interesting posts. I second the motion that he should publish these - as an article, at least, if not a book.

posted 12-07-2004 07:53 PM            

I have often thought about how these early silversmiths have "left their mark" upon the world. Someone could probably make a fortune by marketing custom-made name stamps that can be applied to coins (if the FED did not lock you up first).

Here is today's DAILY POST:

D. B. Bowler is a bit of a mystery. He was researched by Louise Conway Belden. I own a second example of his countermark on an 1809 U.S. Half Cent. I have not had any luck obtaining an example of his silverware. It is apparently very rare.

posted 12-08-2004 11:53 AM            

quote:

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I will look into making a small silver medalion with a hand struck image and mark it wih my stamp for any forum members who want it.
I might even make a swage with a bug. That way Paul will want it for sure.

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Fred, that's a cool idea I hope it will be some kind of unpopular insect, rather than a dragonfly or ladybug.

posted 12-08-2004 01:02 PM            

I want one...!

posted 12-08-2004 02:10 PM            

This die will be used to swage a small bit of copper to creat a relief of the creature. I will then forge a disk with a hammered surface and then sweat solder the bug onto the surface. Voila!

Sounds simple no?

We will see.

posted 12-08-2004 03:27 PM            

I will gladly document the process.

posted 12-08-2004 04:23 PM            

Understand what you mean about the popularity of dragonflies and ladybugs, not to mention butterflies, but gotta lobby for my favorite bug (chuckle).

Cheryl

posted 12-09-2004 10:55 AM            

Bob M.