SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
American Silver before sterling Forum

A GLOSSARY of MILLED BANDS
Past American Coin Silver Forum topics/threads worth a look
WEV's American Silversmith's Family Tree Project Smith's Index

How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  American Silver before sterling
tline3open  New Book on MO Silver

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   New Book on MO Silver
labarbedor

Posts: 353
Registered: Jun 2002

iconnumber posted 01-27-2005 12:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for labarbedor     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a new book on MO silver coming out.
    Missouri's Silver Age: Silversmiths of the 1800s
    Norman Mack
    Foreword by Anne Woodhousee
It is available soon on Amazon, and other places. I have had a disk copy for a few years, and have been checking it for people. Now everyone can have a copy.

It took 8 years for the publisher to do their work, for those authors who think they have been waiting a long time.

IP: Logged

FredZ

Posts: 1069
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 01-27-2005 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FredZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great to hear! Let us know if you see it available.

Fred

IP: Logged

labarbedor

Posts: 353
Registered: Jun 2002

iconnumber posted 01-27-2005 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for labarbedor     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is available now, or at least can be ordered now on Barnes & Noble, and Amazon.

IP: Logged

ahwt

Posts: 2124
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 01-29-2005 01:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maurice you asked, in some thread that I cannot find, for a book that explained symbols used in paintings. I picked up an interesting book tonight entitled “Stories in Stone: A field Guide to Cemetery Symbolism and Iconography” by Douglas Keister. His book has wonderful pictures and has chapters on flora, fauna, the human condition, mortality symbols, and several other categories. Many of the examples shown for tombstones and the like would be the same for other decorative objects, including silver. The humble pansy is a symbol of remembrance and comes from the French work pensée (thought). The dragonfly symbolized immortality and regeneration, with the added elements of lightness, elegance and speed. He also notes that Swedes called the dragonfly Blindsticka (“Blind Stinger”) because they believed a dragonfly could pick out a person’s eyes. The dragonfly is a national emblem of the Japanese island of Honshu. The bellflower because of its bell-like shape is accorded the same symbolism as religions give a bell and also is a symbol for constancy and gratitude. The bellflower is the national flower of Chile.

Mr. Keister’s suggested reading is mostly other books on cemetery symbolism, but does include one that seems to general in nature. That one is “The Penguin Dictionary of Symbols” by Jean Chevalier.

Thanks for the information about the new book on Missouri silver. I saw the notice of a book signing in the Missouri Historical Society newsletter and initially thought that a silver exhibit of Mr. Mack's silver would begin at the same time. Apparently that is not the case.

IP: Logged

FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 07-29-2006 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't want to put people off this book, which seems to represent a significant updating from the previously published works on Missouri coin silver, but do be aware that there are mistakes and idiosyncracies. Just in the entries for people I have previously researched, and can thus easily check:

- It's Edwin Adriance, not Edward. In his entry, footnote 1 does not supply the information preceding the note. And Cornelius DeRiemer did not "follow... his New York associate to Missouri". In fact, DeRiemer had separated from their partnership (which also included Edward Edmund Mead) a few years earlier, and he stayed in Auburn, NY, got involved in photography in the 1850s, retired in the 1860s, and died there in 1872. It was actually Mead who moved first to St. Louis, in 1835; Adriance stayed behind in NY for a few months to close up the Ithaca shop, before following. I note also that DeRiemer is not mentioned in the entry for Mead, despite a note to see that entry concerning the two of them.

- In the entry for Edward Mead, his New York background is not mentioned. And I know of no instance where he spelled his name Meade in a mark (as stated p.109-10; no such example is illustrated, either). Also, he was active in St. Louis from 1835, as the senior partner in Mead & Adriance, not just from 1842 (the year the partnership broke up), as suggested in his entry. The note (p.112) to 'see entry' for Jaccard in re: Edward H. Mead becoming a salesman there leads nowhere, as he is not mentioned in that entry.

- C. S. Russell, who advertised as a successor to E. Mead & Co. in 1861 (until at least 1864), is not mentioned in the book that I can see. Nor, apparently, is the firm of Mueller & Co. (a Mr. Truemiller was the other partner), who were dealers in watches, jewelry and silver in St. Louis. It's possible they were just retailers, not "silversmiths", but I would think they would still be worth mentioning as they advertised that they handled silver wares.

- The author uses fl. in an odd way, to indicate the earliest year of recorded activity rather than the usual range of activity. This is somewhat distracting, to see a single year of activity on an entry's title line and then read documentation of years of activity in the entry itself.

Now, I know all too well how hard it can be to maintain continuity across different related entries, and to make sense of all the different sources that one has to examine in doing this sort of work. But I was hoping to find out more about Mssrs. Mead and Adriance in St. Louis from this book; instead, the mistakes I found made me wonder what others there might be. I hope that a second, revised edition will follow, with a good intense round of double-checking the facts and the linkages between entries. Until then, if you're interested in Missouri silver don't avoid the book, just be aware that, like all books, it has its faults.

[This message has been edited by FWG (edited 07-29-2006).]

IP: Logged

ahwt

Posts: 2124
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 07-30-2006 09:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ruth Hunter Roach, in her book “St. Louis Silversmiths”, states that “Silver marked E. Meade & Co. (letters incised), is found in some quantity, as well as E. MEADE & CO. (rectangle indented). She has Edward Mead moving to St. Louis in 1837 and Edwin Adriance moving to St. Louis several years earlier. She does not show photographs of any marks.

I cannot recall seeing the Meade spelling on silver.

IP: Logged

FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 07-30-2006 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can't say where she got either of those pieces of information, but of the hundreds of pieces of Mead silver from both Ithaca and St. Louis that I've seen, none has been spelled with an |e|. Frankly I find her copyediting suspect as well, as she seems to use both spellings in that entry without mention (compare the entry title and first paragraph with the last paragraph, for example).

I went to the original newspapers from both cities, searching the papers page by page for every ad and mention, and they were very clear as to the 1835 sequence. And in none of the hundreds of ads - maybe over a thousand even - did he spell his name Meade, in either city. I wouldn't say it never happened - but I'd want to see it with my own eyes, at this point, to believe it. In the early 19th century you still run into shifting spellings with some frequency, but by mid-century they're really starting to stabilize, especially for literate business-people.

[This message has been edited by FWG (edited 07-30-2006).]

IP: Logged

wev
Moderator

Posts: 4084
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 07-30-2006 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He is listed twice in the 1880 St. Louis census. In the first enumeration he is listed as Edward Mead, jeweler, born 1806 in NY to English parents. His wife, Phoebea, was born in 1807, also in New York; their widowed daughter, Susan M. Brown, (born 1846 in Missouri) was living with them, as was her son Edward, age 12. In the second enumeration he is listed as Edward Mead, jeweler, born 1808 in NY to English parents. His wife, Phoebe, was born in 1809, also in New York; their daughter's information is the same, but her son is named Ross, rather than Edward.

IP: Logged

FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 07-30-2006 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
wev, you list in your project a death-date for Adriance of 14 Dec 1852, in St. Louis. May I ask where you found that? I was never able to definitively trace him after the early 1840s; I found record of an Edwin Adriance back here in New York state (at Scipio, in Cayuga County) in 1848, with a death record there in 1852, but could never verify that it was the same Edwin Adriance. One of these days I'll get out to that courthouse, and maybe there are better records available than what's online....

IP: Logged

bascall

Posts: 1626
Registered: Nov 99

iconnumber posted 06-22-2008 12:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bascall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There's an Edward Adriance in Scipio, New York over the time period under consideration that appears to be strictly a farmer.

In the 1850 U S Federal Census for Jersey City, New Jersey, there is an Edwin Adrianes that the indexer reads as Adriance. He was born in New York in 1809, and his occupation was "jeweller." Also listed with this Edwin are Eliza who was born in 1820 in New York, Charles who was born in 1836 in New York and Anna who was born in 1843 in Maine.

In the next census, 1860, in New York City there is an Eliza who was born in New York in 1825, and an Anna E who was born in Missouri (no Edwin or other male that could be a husband is shown).

The only thing for sure here, well pretty certain, is that the Scipio Edward is not the Edwin under consideration, and there was an Edwin Adrianes who was a jeweler in Jersey City in 1850.

[This message has been edited by bascall (edited 06-22-2008).]

IP: Logged

FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 06-22-2008 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the Jersey lead, bascall! I already had the Scipio Edwin Adriance tentatively ruled out, although I was going to try and find him in the cemetery sometime out of curiosity. Wife was Elizabeth O'Connor Adriance; daughter was Anna Eliza (Anna from Edwin's mother Anna Storm Adriance, his father was Abraham Adriance), born in St. Louis in 1842 and I think died in Stamford CT in 1876. I have Edwin as born in Hopewell NY 1809.

Edwin's brother John was also a silversmith, in Poughkeepsie 1814-26, before going into the foundry business.

The reason for not completely ruling out the Scipio Edwin is that Edwin and Eliza Adriance are listed on an Ithaca property transfer in 1848 as residing there. The coincidence of having a wife with the same name keep's him in consideration. He's one of my few remaining stubbornly incomplete entries in the Ithaca book....

IP: Logged

bascall

Posts: 1626
Registered: Nov 99

iconnumber posted 06-22-2008 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bascall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My pleasure. A few things to consider about the Scipio Edward Adriance is that he farmed in that town from at least 1850 to 1880, his birth is about six years later than Edwin and he has a totally different set of children from Edwin. That there is a family connection seems highly likely. Nevertheless, strange things do happen. There's lots of surprises in genealogy as you probably well know.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2020 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices