SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
American Silver before sterling Forum

A GLOSSARY of MILLED BANDS
Past American Coin Silver Forum topics/threads worth a look
WEV's American Silversmith's Family Tree Project Smith's Index

How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  American Silver before sterling
tline3open  Warner Covered Butter

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Warner Covered Butter
mdhavey

Posts: 164
Registered: Dec 2003

iconnumber posted 02-09-2005 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mdhavey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's an interesting piece American silver up for for comment. Andrew Elicott Warner made this classic Baltimore repousse piece, but is it possible to know when and whether by Junior or Senior? I've reproduced the mark at the end of this post.

I've seen covered butters, almost all silver plate or pottery, usually made or sold in the South. What (I think) is unusual about this piece is the removable perforated tray. Has anyone seen this form before? I believe chips of ice were put under the tray to keep the butter from melting. Pretty handy for a hot, humid Baltimore summer.

A curiosity is the mark under the name. It looks like "11 2" with the two a superscript numeral. I thought Baltimore silver had as an assay mark "11" which referred to 11 ounces of pure silver to one ounce of alloy. What does the 11 2 mean?

IP: Logged

Silver Lyon

Posts: 363
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 02-09-2005 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Silver Lyon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The 11 2 mark indicates that the piece is Sterling (92.5% pure) silver - the 11 ounces 2 pennyweights (usually written: dwts) is expressed as a proportion of a TROY pound of 12 ounces.

So Mr Warner is stating to those that understood the mark that his piece is of sterling fineness.

I will leave the opining on which Warner to others whose knowledge is better!!

IP: Logged

wev
Moderator

Posts: 4121
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 02-09-2005 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Andrew Senior (and this is his mark) used a variety of 'purity' marks -- 11, 11+15, 11+2 -- at various times. Someone better at math can work out the silver content for each.

The form of the butter dish (which is very handsome, by the bye) is fairly common; the peirced tray over ice chips is actually quite efficient.

IP: Logged

mdhavey

Posts: 164
Registered: Dec 2003

iconnumber posted 02-09-2005 01:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mdhavey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can we put an approximate date to the piece? The absence of Baltimore assay marks would suggest after 1837 I believe...

IP: Logged

swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 02-09-2005 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The use of quality marks was adopted after the cessation of assay marks around 1830, and continued until about 1855, by which time all Baltimore silversmiths discontinued this marking practice, except for Samuel Kirk and Andrew Ellicot Warner, who continued the practice past the Civil War - Kirk until the 1890's, according to Patrick Duggin ("Marks on Baltimore Silver" in "Silver in Maryland"). There is no way to date a piece within this period by these marks alone.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2022 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices