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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 American Silver before sterling
 pseudo mark: eagle - V - profile
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| Author | Topic: pseudo mark: eagle - V - profile |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 04-07-2005 01:17 PM
  
This is probably an easy one, but US silver is not my area. Can anyone ID the mid-19th century pseudo mark (sorry, I don't have a photo): (vertical, top to bottom): IP: Logged |
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IJP Posts: 326 |
posted 04-07-2005 05:51 PM
Here's a real shot in the dark, but maybe worth speculation. I'm not able to find any information on the mark of an Albert H. Van Cott, whose name is mentioned in connection with Polhamus by Charles Carpenter in Tiffany Silver. One might presume that even if he didn't actually supply to Tiffany, Young & Ellis/Tiffany & Co., if John Polhamus found in him a suitable partner, then certainly Van Cott's work would have been acceptable to most any New York retailer of the time. But I'm not able so much as to find any other mention of him in my small library. I'm not trying to suggest anything, but has anyone ever seen a mark for this maker? IP: Logged |
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labarbedor Posts: 353 |
posted 04-07-2005 06:17 PM
This might be grasping at straws, but is the mark very legible? Albert Coles' mark is a eagle AC bust of Washington. I could post a photo, or if you have Soeffing it shows the mark. IP: Logged |
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sazikov2000 Posts: 254 |
posted 04-07-2005 06:56 PM
blakstone, please see my question and the fotos in: Continental silver, unknown hallmarks and the answer of ahwt. Sazikov 2000 [This message has been edited by sazikov2000 (edited 04-07-2005).] IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 04-07-2005 07:21 PM
Sasikov2000's picture: quote:(from ahwt) IP: Logged |
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blakstone Posts: 493 |
posted 04-07-2005 08:25 PM
Well, of course that's it. I spent about a half hour using the search function here, thinking that I'd seen this mark here, but to no avail. That's what I get for not looking in my own back yard: the Continental forum. Thanks for the info, and my apologies for the lapse in memory! IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 04-12-2005 02:19 PM
This mark is an example used by McGrew to show how dies were changed to accommodate dissolution of partnerships. The original die had a C just above the V. This was for the partnership of William L. Coles and James S. Vancourt. Vancourt had the die recut to eliminate the C when the partnership was dissolved. The example of the mark shown on page 152 of McGrew shows that just a faint outline of the C remained as the C apparently could not be completely removed. Perhaps you can see the faint C on your silver also. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 04-12-2005 03:14 PM
There seems to be a small c just barely visible in the photo - I have brought it up a little, but it seems disproportionally small, as if it was added to the V and subsequently removed. Is this how it is supposed to have looked? [gone from the internet -home.socal.rr.com/swpicfiles/cvmk.jpg]
IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 04-13-2005 12:25 AM
Your picture has the same size C as is shown in McGrew on page 152 and as you note, it is much smaller than the V. The mark with the C and the V is shown on page 9 of McGrew, but to my eye the two marks are different. In the mark on page 9, the V is lower within the lozenge and the C is larger (same size as the V). However, this mark is stated to have been redrawn from Darling Foundation's New York Silversmiths and may not be accurate as to size or placement. The reference to the partnership was from Soeffing in Venable at page 322, but no marks are shown there. You bring up an excellent point as one would expect the letter C and V to be the same size in the partnership's mark. That is clearly not the case in the mark altered to eliminate the C. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 04-13-2005 07:46 PM
The Darling Foundation book has a similar (but not identical) mark with a lower V and a blank area above attributed to George L. Vaughan of Buffalo N.Y.(i840-1849) and another for Chase & Vaughan (1842-1844), in which the letters are not clear in the photograph. There is no mention of a James Vancourt, a William Coles, or of a Coles/Vancourt partnership. This was published in 1964, so there may have been new information since then - what is the other reference to which you refer? IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 04-13-2005 09:12 PM
Don Soeffing has a section in the back of Charles L. Venable’s book “Silver in America”. Don's section is entitled “Biographies of Selected Silver Producers and Retailers”. He notes that James S Vancourt first appears in the New York City directory in 1845 as an independent silversmith a 4 Little Green Street. This site was next to Albert Coles’ place of business at 6 Little Green. Albert Coles’ nephew, William L Coles formed a partnership with Vancourt in 1848 and they specialized in hollow-handled knives for butter, fruit and dessert. Don states that Albert Coles used the (eagle) AC and (head), that Coles & Vancourt used the (eagle) C&V and (head) and that Vancourt used the (eagle) V (head). He also notes that the (eagle) V (head) had formerly been attributed to George C. Vaughn of Buffalo, New York. The partnership of Coles and Vancourt lasted until 1852 and Vancourt is listed as working until 1861. No marks are shown in this book so the unexplained size difference between the V and C is not discussed. IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 04-13-2005 09:19 PM
As usual, Soeffing gives meager primary source citations for his various conclusions; I have found it prudent to take his machinations with a healthy grain of salt. IP: Logged |
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