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tline3open  Drummond- unknown mark

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Author Topic:   Drummond- unknown mark
Fitzhugh

Posts: 134
Registered: Jan 2002

iconnumber posted 07-18-2005 05:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fitzhugh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anyone referenced a smith by the name of Drummond? A friend just purchased an interested piece with that mark. Thanks.

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Silver Lyon

Posts: 363
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 07-18-2005 06:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Silver Lyon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What is the mark struck upon?
When (approx) was it made?
Are there any other markings/engraving?
More input required, please.

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Fitzhugh

Posts: 134
Registered: Jan 2002

iconnumber posted 07-18-2005 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fitzhugh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Our moderator just received some images to post for us. This is on a coin silver spool holder, likely ca. 1830 by my guess. It's an incised mark, but the item itself seems of this earlier vintage, perhaps 1840's.

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wev
Moderator

Posts: 4046
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 07-18-2005 06:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here are the images:

A handsome and curious piece.

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Silver Lyon

Posts: 363
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 09-09-2005 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Silver Lyon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think that your spool holder was made in Australia by the firm of William Drummond & Co. The engraved decoration is typical of decoration used by this leading manufacturer and it is common to find his name struck in full.

Willam Drummond & Co. was formed from the partnership of Samuel Brush and William Drummond on Brush's retirement from business in 1884. They had a massive retail shop in Collins Street, Melbourne and were the 'Garrard' of Australia.

WD had arrived in Australia in about 1860 and worked on his own as a freelance journeyman (not as a principal with a mark)before linking up with Brush c.1870.

Hope this helps! smile


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Fitzhugh

Posts: 134
Registered: Jan 2002

iconnumber posted 09-13-2005 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fitzhugh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting theory, but I am not familiar with Australian silver at all. Was this a silversmithing firm you are talking about? It is coin grade silver, not sterling, and I can't imagine even in Australia their not using sterling silver and hallmarking as such by the 1880's. The decoration is not stamped on, either, so again I'd be shocked at a firm "down under" hand decorating something like this in the late Victorian era. The design itself doesn't seem to match that time period, either. Other comments would still be appreciated!

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Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 09-14-2005 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd say that the design is just right for the 1880s; it certainly reflects earlier modes of engraving, but it does not look neoclassical, because of the density and "fussiness" of the design.

I am clueless as to the use of coin versus sterling in Australia...but it would seem to me that Australia, being even farther from Mother England than the USA, would have used coin even LONGER than the USA did. The USA only switched over to sterling because of marketing pressure from aggressive silver producers like Tiffany. Australia has always been culturally linked to England, but also buffered by its vast distance away.

I was just amazed anyone knew anything about Australian silver.

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Silver Lyon

Posts: 363
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 09-14-2005 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Silver Lyon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is an established colonial silversmithing craft in Australia by the 1820s.

Learning some lessons from their experience with the American colonies, the British Government took the view that it was important for Australia to develop its own institutions (and taxation!) while still keeping its ties to the 'motherland'.

This approach worked rather better, you will observe.
One reflection of this 'national Australian development' is the home-grown silversmithing - the best workmanship is of international quality - it even reached Philadelphia with Steiner, the leading maker in Adelaide at the time, exhibiting at the Centennial.

It is very clever of you to be able to tell the difference between sterling purity and coin purity by eye - I can't do it after 35 years of trying frown (although the funny alloys used in various places [such as zinc in place of copper as a whitener]do make for readily identifiable 'colours').

Australian silver is essentially like all colonial silver and tries to be sterling but is often (particularly on smaller pieces where nobody might notice the difference!) less. In Adelaide most of the customers were of German origin and used to .800.

For an example of the workmanship available see the recent posting by Scott in the General Forum - William Kerr is far from one of the main or best players!
Hope this helps! wink

P/s Drummonds were known locally as 'the Garrards of Australia' - they had a large silver and jewellery workshop of their own in addition to retailing both imported and locally made pieces by other makers.

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11202
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 07-22-2018 12:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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