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tline3open  Nicholas Van Rensselaer of NYC?

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Author Topic:   Nicholas Van Rensselaer of NYC?
wev
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iconnumber posted 09-15-2005 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone have any information, past Darling's mention (w.c. 1765, NYC), on this silversmith?

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 09-15-2005 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nothing really useful:

Darling: Albany 1765 and NYC
Belden: NYC 1760-1770 and Albany
Buhler and Hood: Albany and NYC 1760-1770
Ensko: NYC and Albany 1765
Not mentioned by Waters or Rice; no other source for the 1765 Albany date; no ads or directories cited for the NYC dates - may be estimates only (?). I trace these back to Thorne: Albany, 1765 and Currier: Albany(?) and New York 1760-1770.

[This message has been edited by swarter (edited 09-15-2005).]

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wev
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iconnumber posted 09-15-2005 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I did find one piece illustrated
[luceweb.nyhistory.org/luceweb/item_detail.htm?qmkey=2179 - link gone from the Internet] , in the Henry Luce III Center. The information given is skimpy and I have not had a reply to my email.

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ahwt

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iconnumber posted 09-16-2005 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do not have any information to add about Nicholas Van Rensselaer; however I want to thank you for pointing out the web site to the New York Historical Center and the Henry Luce III Center. I have been looking for some information about ceramic pitchers that commemorated General Lafayette's visit to the U.S. in 1824 and they have four pictured. What a nice web site. Thanks.

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bascall

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iconnumber posted 12-24-2008 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bascall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is from Mr. Dingman Versteeg's article, "The City of New Amsterdam," in the Year Book of the Holland Society of New York, 1903:

In 1629 the first step was taken to give the province of New Netherland self-government. For the purpose of encouraging immigration the system of patroons was established. The condition of the patroon's grant of land was that he should bring fifty grown-up persons to New Netherland and settle them along the Hudson River. The most famous of these patroons was Kiliaen Van Rensselaer, a jeweler in Amsterdam. In the present work he is often mentioned as the patroon of the region around Albany.

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wev
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iconnumber posted 12-24-2008 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kiliaen Van Rensselaer (c. 1580 - 7 October 1643) was the first patroon, but never actually crossed the Atlantic. The first Van Rensselaer here was his son by his second marriage, Jeremiah, father of the silversmith Kiliaen who trained with Jeremiah Dummer. Grandfather Kiliaen was a diamond and pearl merchant, rather than a jeweler proper, as well as a founder of the Dutch West Indies Company. It was his heavy investment in the Company that lead to the large land grants given to him.

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bascall

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iconnumber posted 12-24-2008 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bascall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for that. It was interesting to read of the younger Kiliaen's vision of prosperity in his new trade in the colonie's on your site.

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argentum1

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iconnumber posted 12-24-2008 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for argentum1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Go online and type in his name and you will find a short history of him.

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Tad Hale

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iconnumber posted 12-26-2008 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tad Hale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know if this is the right Nicholas Van Rensselaer or not.

Elsie, b. 1759; m. Nov. 20, 1780, Col. Nicholas Van Rensselaer, son of Col. Killian Van Rensselaer, and Ariciantie Schulyer.

He is not listed in Albany Silver by Norman Rice, Silversmiths of New York City by Von Khrum, New York marriages before 1784 and there is no listing of any will made by him
prior to 1800 in New York, and he is not in the New York Muster Rolls from 1755-1764.

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argentum1

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iconnumber posted 12-27-2008 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for argentum1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess this is an indication of the same name being given to more than one person. This sort of muddies the geneological searchs without some prior knowledge of who one is looking for.

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swarter
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iconnumber posted 12-27-2008 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by argentum1:
I guess this is an indication of the same name being given to more than one person.

Very common in those days - it was traditional to name the first born son after an older relative, often the paternal grandfather, and the other children also usually received names used before them somewhere in the family. Much more so than today. It is the genealogist's bete noir

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cbc58

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iconnumber posted 01-18-2021 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cbc58     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I recently acquired a spoon said to be by Nicholas Van Rensselear -- pictures follow. It has a full rat tail drop and looks like it might have been made in the late 1730's or 40's. According to the information I can find - this does not fit the time period he is said to have worked - it is earlier. Wonder if my date assessment is correct. Could there have been another Nicholas Van Rensselear who worked earlier? ... or he worked earlier but was not documented as such? Or something else?




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wev
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iconnumber posted 01-18-2021 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a similar spoon at Winterthur listed as NYC/Albany, 1760-1770. I have still have not found any records confirming which Nicholas was the smith


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cbc58

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iconnumber posted 01-18-2021 11:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cbc58     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tks WEV. When would you date the spoon I listed if we were not told NVR's working dates in NYC?

Wonder if there might be another NVR that worked prior to him.

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Scott Martin
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iconnumber posted 01-18-2021 11:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From an 08/2019 auction:

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wev
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iconnumber posted 01-18-2021 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting -- same initials on the auctioned spoon. The Winterthur example came into the Bissel collection at its founding.

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asheland

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iconnumber posted 01-26-2021 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I love these early examples!

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