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tlineopen  American Silver before sterling
tline3open  Mid 18th Century PAP Boat

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Author Topic:   Mid 18th Century PAP Boat
t-man-nc

Posts: 327
Registered: Mar 2000

iconnumber posted 03-13-2006 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for t-man-nc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On my several trips through the UK I saw a number of PAP Boats, with and without Handels, But I had never seen an American example until last weekend.

I am afraid it has no makers mark and it apears that the handle was added after the boat was created. It is most deffently Coin, and the Lip show some signs of the Silver Solder typical of mid to late 18th century work.

The Sides have some monograms and and dates, the newest was the Initials and Birthdate of the woman I purchased it from. She was born in 1938, and had inherited it from her grand mother (born in the 1860), who according to the letters show that her got it from her Grand Monther and who put her initials and birth date (1800) whe she inherited it from her mother, so I think that makes 6 generations?

The lady told me her children only wanted the Reposse' and that the "Plain Silver" didn't really interest them.

So my real question is are these rare from America and mid to late 18th century. (just curious)

I saw a picture of one from the Victorian Period with it embossed designs and busy pattern, but this one is very simple and very pleasing to my eye.

I will try to send a picture tonight but mine are always a blurried, maybe I can get some help with it as my is in town this week.

Any information on these would be a great help...

Thanks "Smaug"

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 03-13-2006 10:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
These were used for liquids as well as for pap, which was a kind of gruel fed to invalids as well as to infants. They are often called invalid feeders, and replaced spout cups which were used for that purpose until the mid-Eighteenth Century. Usually they are quite plain and have some kind of thumb rest or gripping point (like a rise in the rear margin), but do not usually have handles or feet; some of those originally without handles may have had them added, being converted for use as gravy or sauce boats, which was not their original purpose. Unless awkwardly attached, I would not automatically assume that a handle was added, but I would look very closely. While pap boats do not come up as often as some other objects, I would characterize them as scarce, rather than rare.

Here is an example by Hugh Wishart (New York, w. 1793-1824):

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Raf Steel

Posts: 94
Registered: Jul 2005

iconnumber posted 03-14-2006 07:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raf Steel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to clarify the name: "pap" is Dutch or Flemish for "porridge" or "gruel"
Raf.

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t-man-nc

Posts: 327
Registered: Mar 2000

iconnumber posted 03-14-2006 12:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for t-man-nc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok... I have some pictures, and have them in Photo Bucket when I go to edit it says they are 512 x 384 96k so what do I need to do to make sure they are the right size... I am not clear how to make them 412 at 72 dpi...?

Thanks "Smaug"

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t-man-nc

Posts: 327
Registered: Mar 2000

iconnumber posted 03-14-2006 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for t-man-nc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I resized one .... lets see if I did it right

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t-man-nc

Posts: 327
Registered: Mar 2000

iconnumber posted 03-14-2006 01:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for t-man-nc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It looks very small, let me try one without the resize.... Here goes...

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11377
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 03-14-2006 01:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Close enough this time but please learn how to do it correctly for next time. Thanks.

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t-man-nc

Posts: 327
Registered: Mar 2000

iconnumber posted 03-14-2006 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for t-man-nc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Scott, I will try to do better next time ...

Stewart, The example you show in your picture seems to have a rounded bottom which if memory serves, so did all of the English pieces. Mine that I just picked up has a Flat bottom and is 5 1/4 inches long, 5 and 3/4 inches if you count the handle. It is 2 and 3/4 inches across the top and only stands 1 and 7/8 inches high at the side... It is a tiny thing...

Are these dimensions normal for PAP boats or are there differences from the English and the Americans forms from your experience?

Thanks “Smaug”

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outwest

Posts: 390
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 03-15-2006 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for outwest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tmac
If you're using photo bucket you can choose the 75% reduce. I believe it defaults to 50% (what probably happened the first time to make it so tiny).

It's a pretty shape.

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 03-15-2006 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Wishart piece does have a round bottom, which is typical, as it is to be held in the cupped hand, with the side of the thumb resting on the raised back lip. It is 4 3/4" long X 2 13/16" wide X 1 1/4" high.

Yours looks as if it has a rolled lip - if that is so, it would be of later manufacture. Since the bottom is flat, the handle is undoubtedly original.

[This message has been edited by swarter (edited 03-15-2006).]

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t-man-nc

Posts: 327
Registered: Mar 2000

iconnumber posted 03-15-2006 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for t-man-nc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stewart,

Yes the Lip appears to be rolled but soldered. Additionally the handle looks to be a later addition; I wish I could get better pictures. The marks inside the piece show a heat corona, and there are several spots out from the soldering that show up in a "Breath" test, indicating either reheating or metal impurities.

All in all it is a sweet little piece that has found a home in my accumulation, "Wife - of Smaug" euphemistically refers to as “That old blind mans collection”.... smile

Thanks again to everyone for all your knowledge and help!

Scott and June, I know I don’t say it enough, but Thank You for having this wonderful site.

"Smaug"


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