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tline3open  "REVERE" Spoon Research

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Author Topic:   "REVERE" Spoon Research
cheli1213

Posts: 5
Registered: Dec 2004

iconnumber posted 10-23-2005 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cheli1213     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-0723]

Hello,

I purchased a very large lot of sterling & coin at a recent sale. I am learning about silver and starting to collect. I was very pleased with my purchase of a lot of spoons, approx. 60 different patterns, makers, great research and learning tool for me. I am inquiring about one large, 8.75 spoon simply marked “REVERE”. It has beautiful bright cut decoration. The problem with researching this spoon on the internet is that many manufacturers make reproduction Paul Revere items or souvenir and no period pieces to examine for comparison. In the Book of Old Silver it does show several makers marks for Paul Revere 1735-1818. They are very similar and difficult to differentiate from my very light hallmark. Also in the Collectors Dictionary of Silver & Gold, Clayton, it shows on page 280, Fig. XXVII a group of spoons (drawings, rear view) showing the shape of spoons from 1692-1815. The shape of my spoon is similar to the illustration dated 1769, which matches the time period for Revere. However, it says spoon size is 6.5 - 7.5 long. My spoon is longer. My question is can you recommend any books, sites or museums in the Maine area that show authentic Revere pieces? Also, I can only assume that many fakes exist. Does the bright cut decoration help in identifying whether this is authentic or could this be a later addition? Any suggestions to help aid me in further research would be greatly appreciated.

Michele

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wev
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Posts: 4121
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 10-23-2005 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any piece marked Revere should be approached with some caution, given his high profile and the number of known spurious marks. That said, yours does not trigger any immediate alarms and compares well to this version

I took the liberty of cleaning up the original image a bit and putting it here for comparison.

If you have access to a copy of Kane's Colonial Massachusetts Silversmiths, you can see the numerous verified marks and a listing of the traced tea- and tablespoons. The length is no real guide or worry -- pieces range from 4.5 to 9.5 inches. The bright-cutting is not the most elegant, perhaps, but Revere was never a brilliant engraver and by the end of his career, he was jobbing out such work.

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cheli1213

Posts: 5
Registered: Dec 2004

iconnumber posted 10-23-2005 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cheli1213     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for your response. I will locate a copy "Colonial Massachusetts Silversmiths". I am pleased to know that you are not alarmed by the mark and the size and cutting are appropriate. I will continue further research to the best of my limited ability (local - I live on an island off the coast of Maine). The silver salon archives have been invaluable to me in my my past research quests. I value this forum! Thanks again.

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 10-23-2005 10:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Cheli!

Welcome to the forum!

Can't help you verify the Revere authenticity, but If you do an online used book search you will find several sellers that have the Colonial Silversmiths of Massachuttes(sp) for sale, as well as online auctions.

Hope this helps.

Enjoy the day!

Jersey

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argentum1

Posts: 602
Registered: Apr 2004

iconnumber posted 10-24-2005 07:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for argentum1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with WEV as it looks good. But, there is always a but, on an item such as Revere there is only one reliable method of authentication. Show it to a recognized authority. You could try calling one of the major museums for possible assistance. Good luck and hope that it is Revere as that would be a great find.

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ahwt

Posts: 2334
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 10-24-2005 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It would be helpful to look though books that have examples of bright cut decoration of this time period and see if your pattern matches any other known examples of Revere or other engravers in his area. Finding large number of examples to look at is not an easy task as most books have only a few examples. This task may be a little like John McGrew’s work in trying to identify all the various dies used in the “Basket of Flowers” design. You have an interesting mystery to look into.

I also wonder what would cause the offset nature of the “REVERE” mark. Is that caused by initially hitting the die too much on one side and then trying to fill in the missing letters by hitting on the other side?

One thought on learning about styles. A way of accumulating one’s own library of different styles is to use the saved search function on the popular internet auction and sales sites. Simply put in a term such as “bright cut” and see what happens. That term would pick up silver from a later era, but one could perhaps determine a more limiting term after a few hits.


[This message has been edited by ahwt (edited 10-24-2005).]

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akgdc

Posts: 289
Registered: Sep 2001

iconnumber posted 10-24-2005 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for akgdc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sure looks good to me, although those who have suggested that you get this looked at by an expert are right. (Try the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston.)

Talk about beginner's luck!

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 10-24-2005 01:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have seen a number of similarly distorted marks where the punch appears to have bounced under the hammer. I agree with WEV that there is nothing obvious about the mark to disqualify it - the letter form is consistent with that on other, confirmed marks; however if you examine the middle horizontal bars of the three letters E, the ends appear different from the ones on the mark shown by WEV, and so may have been a similar but different punch (of which Revere used several). I think also the wear on the mark (for one that is poorly struck) is consistent with age and wear on other parts of the spoon.

I have examined a number of photos of similarly decorated spoons, and without exception, they show an oval reserve subtended by a sharp-cornered shield-shaped device, rather than the round-topped one on this spoon. That said, a variety of designs were used on his spoons, and many could have been made and/or engraved by others (by this time in his career, he probably made little silver himself) -- apprentices, journeymen, or jobbers (he is known to have "farmed out" orders to other smiths).

It is always encouraging to find that one can still stumble on a desireable piece in this fashion. It should be worth the effort to follow up on.

[This message has been edited by swarter (edited 10-25-2005).]

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 10-25-2005 12:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have examined a number of references with photographic reproductions of marks -- These two marks as shown in WEV's revised post above can be seen together in Buhler (MFA) as marks (b)(top) and (d) (bottom - this spoon). In particular, note that the middle bar on the middle E is T shaped on this spoon's mark (opposed to a tilted serif in the comparison mark) and that the top and bottom bars are uneven, longer below (opposed to equal in length in the other). Also note that the upper mark and (b) have a pellet preceding the name; this is absent in (d), (this area is obscured in the mark in question) and clearly demonstrates that those two marks shown in Buhler are from different punches. From this examination, I see little reason to doubt the authenticity of this spoon.

(WEV's images taken from his post above smile

[Same as mark (b) in Buhler]

[Same as mark (d) in Buhler]


Another thing of interest (but of little significance) is that mark (d) in Buhler happens to show a defect from a similar "bounce" of the punch -- one might even go so far as to speculate (wildly) that the same person (an apprentice?) might have carelessly made both defective strikes with the same punch!

Reference: American Silver 1655-1825 in the Museum of Fine Arts Boston by Kathryn C. Buhler (1972). Vol. II, p. 385.

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cheli1213

Posts: 5
Registered: Dec 2004

iconnumber posted 10-25-2005 08:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cheli1213     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jersey, I did find on-line a copy of Colonial Silversmiths, thank you. Waiting for it to be shipped.

Swarter, I will also seek a copy of American Silver by Buhler. With positive feedback from so many, thank you, I am contemplating calling the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston to see if they are interested in taking a look. All of your information is so helpful. I would not of known where to even start in authenticating this spoon.

I think that I was able to purchase the large lots of mixed sterling flatware so cheaply (this spoon was in a lot of approx. 60 pieces that I purchased for $45) because all the silver dealers where fighting for the showy items, Tiffany charger, G. Jensen, Lg. Gorham Chantilly, etc. for big money, and overlooked the grouped lots. Hopefully it is authentic, if it is not, I am still thrilled with my purchase since I have many, many beautiful pieces of coin & sterling to research, many of which I will keep.

Thanks again for all of your assistance. I will keep you informed of my progress on this spoon!

Michele

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ahwt

Posts: 2334
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 10-25-2005 08:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Congratulations on your find. It is discoveries like this that make antiquing so much fun.
Art

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asheland

Posts: 935
Registered: Nov 2003

iconnumber posted 10-25-2005 09:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From my limited knowledge on American Coin silver, It sure looks good to me. Everything from the mark, patina, engraving, etc. And the circumstances are excellent. Why would someone go through the trouble to fake it, then throw it in a scrap box? Congratulations on the find!

asheland

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asheland

Posts: 935
Registered: Nov 2003

iconnumber posted 10-25-2005 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By the way, it looks like even the bowl tip is in good shape. That alone is kind of hard to find on 18th century spoons.

asheland

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Kimo

Posts: 1627
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 10-26-2005 11:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think with the encouragement you have received so far that you ought to have the confidence now to take the next step to see whether it really is by Revere and have it expertized.

There is only so much one can do with an internet photo - having an object in the hand for direct inspection by an expert who has personally handled a great many authentic and forged items is a must. There have been so many forgeries of Revere objects for so many years that an expertization in person is really needed.

Please let us know how it turns out.

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 10-26-2005 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello again Michele!

Check for the other silver books the same way......I just found some on an online auction.

BTW Have you checked your library? If they do not have it perhaps you can request an inter-library loan.

Have a great day.
Jersey

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