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tline3open  Coin-Sterling confusion . . .

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Author Topic:   Coin-Sterling confusion . . .
miphi4tbg

Posts: 28
Registered: May 2005

iconnumber posted 09-09-2005 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for miphi4tbg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-0657]


A very confident dealer told me today, after I had paid for a small feather edge coffee spoon, from around 1760-75 and had explained that I was interested in early American coin silver, "That spoon is NOT coin!"

"Oh?" said I.

"No, that spoon is NOT coin!"

I, feeling quite stupid then, said, "Well, then, what is it?"

"It's Sterling, of course!"

"Would you help me understand how you're so sure? I thought only pieces that were marked 'Sterling' actually were sterling, and I thought that didn't start happening until around 1860."

"No, no--there weren't any American coins until around 1820 or 1830--that's when coin silver starts; before that the colonists were melting down their English coins or English pieces and that was all sterling."

So-o-o, am I as stupid as he made me feel? I came home and read a good deal and got the impression that early American silver was a melting pot deal--coins of different realms all lumped together and no way to tell exactly what the fineness was, but rather unlikely to be 92.5%.

Please help! Thanks in advance ...

P.S.--Here is the spoon, sweet and shell-backed. Which of the possible I�B makers is it most likely to be?





Thanks ...

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swarter
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Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 09-09-2005 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It sounds as if you have the right idea. there have been several discussions of this topic on these forums,When Coin Evolved to Sterling being one of the most extensive.

The style of your spoon, called in England, where it originated, is "feathered Old English", and is one of the earliest of this style in America, dating to the late 1770's or '80's. It is not particularly common, perhaps due to the disruptions caused by the Revolution. As to which one of the several IB makers it is, the shape of the punch should be diagnostic, but I do not recognize it off the top of my head.

The photo is a bit fuzzy. Is it possible that there is a colon, rather than a pellet -- I:B?

Can you post an enlargement of the shell? The design does not look typical of those used here.

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miphi4tbg

Posts: 28
Registered: May 2005

iconnumber posted 09-09-2005 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for miphi4tbg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, swarter

Here are a couple more photos, but I'm not sure If I've helped or hindered in trying to bring out the shell. If the mark photo is clearer, you'll see, I think, that it's definitely a pellet, not a colon, between the two letters. In looking on wev's site, I find that the John Benjamin mark is very close to this one. What do you think?


P.S. - The thread on coin - sterling is fascinating, and it does confirm (and expand a great deal) what I understood as the progression in use of the two terms. Do you think it would be tacky to print the thread and mail it to the dealer? smile

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swarter
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Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 09-10-2005 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are some similarities, but the mark is not the same. Note the different placement of the I and B relative to each other, and the asymmetry of the placement of the pellet.

I have not seen this pattern of shell on a known American spoon before, although it is possible that it might be a variant of the webbed shell design used in and around Boston. I would be interested to know if anyone else has encountered it.

There are some dealers who appreciate information, but it has been my experience that many do not. Some get quite angry at being corrected. Unless it is someone you know, I'd let the matter drop and wait until I encountered that person again and casually drop it during converstaion and see how he reacts before elaborating.

[This message has been edited by swarter (edited 09-10-2005).]

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miphi4tbg

Posts: 28
Registered: May 2005

iconnumber posted 09-10-2005 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for miphi4tbg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your voice of moderation, not to mention the comments about the spoon - all very interesting. I'll be eager to hear if anyone else has additional thoughts, as well.

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