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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 American Silver before sterling
 unknown makers mark (Kentucky ?)
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| Author | Topic: unknown makers mark (Kentucky ?) |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 11-24-2006 11:02 AM
  
This is either a large waste bowl or a ?. It is 7 5/8 inches wide by 5 7/8 inches deep by 6 inches tall. depth of bowl is 3 1/2 inches. The mark is TI and does not appear to be a very professionally done die. My basic question is Who is TI? I thought it was a Kentucky smith but have been told that it is not. The mark is unknown to me as it does not show up in any of my references. HELP! Any info is much appreciated. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 11-24-2006 10:01 PM
I do not recognize this mark, but I am curious to know why you think it might be from Kentucky. It is rather early too have been made that area (c. 1810-20 or so) - almost certainly East Coast in origin. I would think it a waste bowl, as you have suggested. IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 11-24-2006 10:11 PM
The dealer said it was Kentucky but then dealers say a lot of things. I bought it for the best reason of all - I like it. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 11-26-2006 01:28 PM
As you say, that is the best reason. The best way to narrow down the origin of a piece like this with an untraced mark is to compare photos of similarly styled pieces, and you might get lucky - the milled decorative bands on Empire style silver are often regional, local, or even proprietary, so if you can match the pattern on the bands you might have an indication at least of where it came from. Often sets have only one or two pieces marked by the maker (or retailer/reseller), so even though it is even remotely possible you could find pieces from the same set, without engraved initials you could never be absolutely positive of that provenance. You might never tie it down, but you would learn a lot in the process! [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 11-26-2006).] IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 11-26-2006 02:16 PM
Thanks Swarter. I try to snatch up every 'old' silver reference that I find. I find that these older references have a lot of pictoral info that is no longer seen. Possibly the items have been acquired so they are no longer publically availabe for comparison. Although the information is sometimes wrong, i.e. misattribution; I enjoy seeing items that I will most likely will never see in my lifetime simply because they are tucked away in someones collection. IP: Logged |
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Fitzhugh Posts: 136 |
posted 12-06-2006 01:53 PM
Why would anyone say 1810-20 is too early to be made in Kentucky????? Is there that little understanding of silversmithing in the Bluegrass? IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 12-06-2006 07:23 PM
"Rather early" is not "too early," only less likely, especially for this style. It was a relative statement, not an absolute. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 01-15-2007 11:20 PM
Reading through the 1980 Transylvania University catalogue of Silver In Kentucky Life 1780-1870 leaves no question that there were silversmiths in Kentucky that could have made this bowl during the period that is described. The Kentucky silversmiths were of the same group that was working in the East at this time. (The first native Kentucky silversmith wasn't born until 1794). The mark is crude in comparison to anything I've seen on Kentucky silver or in my references. Has anyone seen a bowl anything like this one from the early nineteenth century anywhere? It would be nice to come across an example. IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 01-16-2007 01:43 PM
There is a silversmith from Kentucky with these intials but there is no known image of his mark. His working dates fall within this time frame. After I bought the piece and had a close look at the mark, I thought this a possible faked mark as it is rather crudely done. I have seen fiddlebacks filed down to look like coffin ends to increase value. So the fakers are alive and well out there. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 01-16-2007 02:01 PM
More or less crudely made punches are found wherever diemakers were not available or utilized to make professional looking punches. "Homemade" punches are not necessarily faked - there is no reason to fake a mark of an unknown or poorly known silversmith. They are only suspect if they look to be attempts to copy the mark of a silvesmith whose work is in demand. IP: Logged |
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Kayvee Posts: 204 |
posted 01-26-2007 06:08 PM
Can't help with the mark, but the January 2007 issue of The Magazine Antiques (p.196-97) shows a tea and coffee service by Charles A. Burnett of Washington, D.C. dating from 1800-1820. The waste bowl appears to me to be a very, very close stylistic match to yours. The tea service is from the collection of the Museum of Early Southern Decorative Arts and was owned by Nathan Loughborough, a comptroller of the U.S. Treasury under John Adams. Check it out and see what you think. IP: Logged |
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