SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
American Silver before sterling Forum

A GLOSSARY of MILLED BANDS
Past American Coin Silver Forum topics/threads worth a look
WEV's American Silversmith's Family Tree Project Smith's Index

How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  American Silver before sterling
tline3open  Salem church sells historical silver

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Salem church sells historical silver
Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11520
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 12-19-2006 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Salem church sets storied silver work on auction block

    The Boston Globe
    By Charles A. Radin, Globe Staff
    December 19, 2006

SALEM -- Selling the family silver is generally an act of financial distress, but at one of the oldest churches in North America, the situation is just the opposite.

The First Church in Salem, which was founded in 1629 and counted victims as well as judges in the Salem witch trials among its early members, is auctioning off 14 silver tankards, flagons, and beakers in hope of raising $1 million to accelerate growth in membership and programming that began in the late 1990s.

Most of the money will go to making the gray granite church building, which opened in 1836, fully accessible to people who are disabled.

The sale is embraced by a congregation whose roots stretch back to when Roger Williams, the third minister at the church, was shown the door in 1635 for preaching that was considered too radical. He went on to found Rhode Island.

"Our understanding of what is sacred has changed over the centuries," the Rev. Jeffrey Barz-Snell, First Church's pastor, said in an interview yesterday. Rather than hoard prized silver possessions dating to centuries when diversity of any kind was little tolerated, "the people involved in our church now are more concerned with other people, and with the broader community," he said.

The church is selling a fraction of its 70-piece collection, but some of the most important items in American silvercraft are going on the auction block Jan. 18.

They include a cup given to the church by John Higginson, a Salem merchant who interviewed alleged witches and witnesses and recorded their confessions during the Salem witch trials of 1692; a beaker made in 1670 by Jeremiah Dummer, the first native-born American silversmith; and a tankard by John Coney between 1690 and 1710, featuring a European baroque style found in American silver only in the work of Boston smiths.

The sale "is wildly exciting from an antique silver perspective," said Jeanne Sloane, head of the silver department at Christie's, the auction house handling the sale, which was first reported in The Salem News.

"When silver has been the property of a church, we know its provenance, and it has been under terrific care, not left out, not polished too much, not suffering from excessive wear."

In addition, she said, "the early congregations were radically Puritan, so they threw off the trappings of the Anglican high church predecessors they were rebelling against. You do not get engraved crucifixions . . . The pieces are not different from the regular kind of American silver that collectors want."

Sloane said that the goal of the auction is $1 million in sales, but that "there is no ceiling."

"If a couple of people decide this is the opportunity of a lifetime, you can get a price over the high estimate," she said.

That estimate includes valuations of $300,000 for the Coney tankard, $250,000 for the Dummer beaker, and $120,000 for the Higginson cup.
A flagon weighing more than 40 ounces, which Sloane called the single most important piece of silver ever made in Salem, is also to be auctioned, with an estimated top value of $120,000.

First Church will retain a Paul Revere silver set it uses for communion on special occasions, as well as a silver bowl used in baptisms here for more than 200 years.

This is the second high-profile sale of early American silver by a Massachusetts church in recent years. In 2001, United First Parish Church in Quincy, which was founded in 1639 and is the burial place of Presidents John Adams and John Quincy Adams, sold 11 pieces, the value of which at auction had been estimated at around $1 million. The pieces sold for about $3 million.

In that sale, some people, including a former pastor, complained that the church was selling off its heritage; others were unhappy with the sale but felt the church had no choice, given a dwindling membership and a desperate need to fund repairs.

First Church in Salem has no such problems, Barz-Snell said.

"There is no urgency pushing this," he said. "It is the recognition that the church is growing, Salem is growing, and the church is poised, as a progressive Christian church, to become more involved with the broader community."

He said that the Unitarian church's membership is now about 130, about double what it was when he became pastor in 1998. He said two deacons proposed selling some of the highly valued silver after it became apparent that $300,000, raised from the membership to make the church handicapped accessible, was far short of what was needed.

"The decision was made by a democratic vote after considerable debate," Barz-Snell said.

"What is most important for us is the ability to serve our [church] community and the broader community," he said.

"Part of that is maintaining a building that is well maintained and accessible to all."

Thieves have attempted to steal the church's silver collection in the past, he said, stressing that the silver is stored in a secure location away from the church premises.


IP: Logged

swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 12-19-2006 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another such sale was discussed here earlier.

[This message has been edited by swarter (edited 12-19-2006).]

IP: Logged

Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11520
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 12-19-2006 09:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It bothers me to see an institution sell off its history. It also bothers me when what is sold off commands such big $ that it ends up in a private collection and may never be seen again.

I propose a new concept. I don't know what to call this concept, perhaps "shared stewardship" ... or maybe you have a better concept or concept name.

Most of us get great joy when we have the opportunity to handle and possess historic silver. As these silver items/artifacts become more scarce and prohibitively too expensive the opportunity to get up close and personal by serious historians/collectors of silver becomes even rarer.

I propose a new type of auction. Where the institution/owner puts up for auction the limited possession of (not ownership) of the item. Say for example fifty 3 month possession shares.

As some of you know, I have a broken hand and have to hunt & peck for a few more weeks. In my mind, I have broadly worked out a bunch of the issues associated with this concept but getting those thoughts into this thread is difficult until my cast comes off. I know there are problems....in fact there are many... but each (in my mind) has a reasonable solution. If you like this broad concept please suggest how it can be best worked out.

IP: Logged

adelapt

Posts: 418
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 12-20-2006 12:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for adelapt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Firstly Scott - I'm sorry to hear about the broken paw. As far as silver goes (speaking from outside the country), one way to handle it could be as follows: the items are sold (or rented?) on a "time share" basis, whereby they are held (and displayed) at a suitable institution. The institution then displays on the placard/label with the object, that the credit for its appearance belongs to "whoever". It offers the institution the use of the object, the "owner" the kudos associated with the object and the place of display (and maybe a tax allowance somewhere?), any insurance/security would be under institutional cover, and the church would have income in some form. Although I'm out of my depth with this, it may require some sort of philanthropic trust perhaps in which ownership would be vested. I can just imagine the worry lines appearing on the foreheads of curators already...

[This message has been edited by adelapt (edited 12-20-2006).]

IP: Logged

Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 12-20-2006 09:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is already a precedent in this country of more than one museum sharing ownership of an object. However, it never really works as well as it might, because curators (and museums) are all control freaks and hate not to totally control anything they care about.

As to churches selling silver: as a senior church warden myself, at a church whose good old silver was all stolen in 1980 (remember the Hunt brothers, bless 'em) I realize that valuable silver is meaningless to a church that has other more important missions to fulfill. Of course, if MY church owned all that silver, I'd make sure it went into an endowment to take care of the church--but that's perhaps behind what Salem is doing. I just hope they don't blow it all and then have nothing for the future.

IP: Logged

IJP

Posts: 326
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 12-20-2006 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for IJP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Funny, just several nights ago, my father (who lives in Salem) called me to let me know about this sale, which he'd read about in the local paper. I had wanted to post something about it, but I was unable to find any pertinent information on the web via Google search. Thanks, Scott, for finding the article!

IP: Logged

Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11520
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 12-20-2006 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
adelapt,

There are institutions which would embrace your exhibition element but most institution’s bureaucracies move too slowly. So for the majority to be good/willing participants/partners before the auction could prove difficult. After the auction, I could see it happening.

I expect the “reserve” (50 x minimum $ pre share) would have to include insurance and administration by the true owner (or a “philanthropic trust”).

I like the idea of a “philanthropic trust” to administer this for any qualifying institution but starting a “philanthropic trust” seems like an equally large and complex subject.

I do believe there will be many opportunities (depending on local/national laws) for tax advantages.

I expect some individuals who win a share will do as you suggest. I also expect there will be institutions seeking shares for comparative exhibition/study.

My paw is really slowing me down, so I will stop here even thought I have more..... I find out tomorrow how much longer I have to have a cast.

IP: Logged

ahwt

Posts: 2334
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 12-22-2006 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Time share ownership works for vacation homes and I have no reason to doubt that it could work for church silver. All it takes is enough interested people with the will to determine the details of ownership. One unlikely shared ownership relationship is shown in the picture below. I am not sure where the cows came from, but about six or so couples own them on a time share basis. They move around our neighborhood about every two months and their attire changes with the season.

It appears to me that the current owners of the Salem church silver have made a good decision. While the past is certainly important the here and now, as Joseph Campbell used to say must be attended to.

Happy Holidays to all.

IP: Logged

doc

Posts: 728
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 12-22-2006 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This topic really intrigues me. By trade, I am a real estate attorney who has worked with timeshares. I was also thinking of the concept of syndication, which is frequently used in the ownership of racehorses. I have also heard of a group of women who pooled their resources and bought a diamond necklace, and they take weekly turns wearing it.

Having just closed a large deal this morning, I now have time to give this some thought over the holidays, but I think there is something here. I am going to give some thought as to whether there could be some tax credit that might be applicable, which would make the "interval" ownership concept even more attractive to some folks.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2022 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices