SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
American Silver before sterling Forum

A GLOSSARY of MILLED BANDS
Past American Coin Silver Forum topics/threads worth a look
WEV's American Silversmith's Family Tree Project Smith's Index

How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  American Silver before sterling
tline3open  Milled bands

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Milled bands
ahwt

Posts: 2173
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 03-19-2007 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Above is a presentation cup by either John or Samuel Warrington of Philadelphia, PA. The engraving, "Presented to S. Major by T & E. Bentley" together with the word "Sombretillio" has always intrigued me. Does anyone know what Sombretillio means?

The milled band forms a base pedestal and may be of interest to the glossary of milled bands.

IP: Logged

swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 03-20-2007 11:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This band has been added to the milled band thread (Glossary of Milled Bands) as "scalloped."

IP: Logged

wev
Moderator

Posts: 4095
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 03-20-2007 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The historical pattern name is "leaf and dart," which might be a better choice.

IP: Logged

swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 03-20-2007 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Leaf and dart alternates leaves and darts; this pattern seems to have leaves overlapping leaves, and so might not strictly meet the definition of alternating forms.

IP: Logged

swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 03-26-2007 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Originally posted by Paul Lemieux:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a fascinating topic. However, I recommended the following changes in terminology.
"Shields" and "Scalloped" are stylized foliate motifs. "Shell 1" can also be considered foliate (palmette band).

"Arches 1" is a blossom motif.

"Leaf and Vine" 1 & 2 seem to be laurel leaves.

For "Flowers, cables, & beads", I would use "rosettes" instead of "flowers".

For "Braided", I would use "interlace" or "interlacement".

The "Palmette" pattern you illustrate is a kind of modification of the Greek original. A true Greek palmette's leaves spring from a central, rounded leaf, which is typically flanked on either side by a scroll shape. In most cases where the palmette appears as a repeating banded design, these scrolls connect to the scrolls of adjoining palmettes. The palmettes shown here are just the top 2/3 or so of a complete classical palmette.

Except for the interlace and rosette patterns, all of those that I mentioned are common Neoclassical designs, derived from banded decoration typically found on Greek friezes and vessels, such as vases.

Though interlace patterns also appear in Greek decoration, the particular example you picture seems to tend more toward a Medieval Celtic origin.

The rosette, cable, & bead design is sort of a mishmash in my eye. The idea of rosettes alternating with pairs of beads does occur in classical decoration, but the present rosettes are less austere and symmetrical, and perhaps have more of a Renaissance feeling. The cables are just sort of there, and I think this is among my least favorite of all the decorative bands you have shown

Also having a Renaissance vibe are the strung discs bordering the basket-weave design.

[This message has been edited by Paul Lemieux (edited 03-26-2007).]

IP: Logged

swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 03-26-2007 07:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the comments and suggestions, Paul - your opinions are valuable and they will be considered. As stated in the introduction, all names in quotes are provisional, but in fact all the names are tentative - we are looking for cited examples as authorities; for example:

"Shell 1" is illustrated as an example of a shell in an online architectural dictionary - when you click on "shell" in the list of terms, this is what you get.; it refers to a specific type of shell known as a coquille.

Palmette is as close as I could get to an illustrated example. It originally reminded me of the shell derived designs on the back of some spoons, but I had used "spray" because there were other, more typical shells.

I agree that the "braided" design conveys a Celtic impression - I had originally toyed with a Viking related name, but since most of these designs are classical Greco-Roman in origin, I chose a purely descriptive name pending an applicable example from a citable source.

Poke around in the architectural dictionary or another such source, and if other such examples can be found, please post them, but not in the Glossary itself. Until then, short of actual errors, one name may be as good as another.

IP: Logged

Paul Lemieux

Posts: 1768
Registered: Apr 2000

iconnumber posted 03-26-2007 10:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul Lemieux     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just poked around in my copy of Meyer's Handbook of Ornament. There are a couple examples of shell-like designs similar to yours (shell 1) that are identified as leaves. One the other hand, there are also similar examples described as shells. This is why I didn't make a definite pronouncement about that particular band. I suppose when something is that stylized, its real identity would be determined through its context in an overall decorative scheme. In the case of the silver piece with Shell 1, there is no decorative scheme beyond the motif itself, so it is open to interpretation.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2020 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices