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tline3open  Who and where?

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Author Topic:   Who and where?
Silver Lyon

Posts: 363
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 06-29-2007 06:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Silver Lyon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I need help.
Does anyone know or have any ideas where to look?
This spoon appeared on my desk yesterday and I can't seem to find the maker.
The stem is unusually flat, but the spoon is well made and a good weight.
I suppose c.1780?

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 06-29-2007 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know that I can be of help with the maker - I have not seen the mark, nor a swaged design like that on the back of the bowl. In my experience, spoons from the 1780's have more elliptical bowls and half-round stems. Flat stems come in around 1800 or so. To my eye, the swage for that design looks to have been home-made, and the engraving is better, but still a little uncertain. If the spoon is American, my guess (and it is only that)would be that it was not made in a major metropolitan area, and probably by a relatively inexperienced craftsman. If nothing else, it is interesting and perhaps original. confused

[This message has been edited by swarter (edited 06-29-2007).]

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wev
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Posts: 4095
Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 06-29-2007 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with swarter's points and also do not recognize the mark.

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agleopar

Posts: 847
Registered: Jun 2004

iconnumber posted 06-29-2007 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agleopar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to start a ball rolling and ask so that I can learn, because I am guessing....
Could this be provincial British/ Scottish. It feels that to me - shape, weight, engraving.
Would a Scotts who might have used his full name north of the border use initials in say Newcastle? Geo. Sam. Lewis? He might be later, I do not know his dates?

One last question, when you say the stem is flat, is that more a US style than British one?

I am editing my own post because I was confusing the latter Irish use of names with Scottish use of double struck initials, so G.Lewis of Newcastle is a strrretch!


[This message has been edited by agleopar (edited 06-29-2007).]

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swarter
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Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 06-29-2007 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
One last question, when you say the stem is flat, is that more a US style than British one?

I suspect so - it is very common, but mostly so after about 1800. The term can be misleading -- "flat" refers to the upper surface being level rather than arched; the stem is actually rectangular in cross-section, and not flattened like a pancake.

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FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 06-29-2007 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also agree that it is a fascinatingly awkward combination, with the flat stem and bowl shape. The engraving style also is one I'd normally associate with a slightly later date. Engraving can be added later of course, and bowls also can be reshaped without too much difficulty, but then we're starting to assume a fair amount of 'messing with" that is not really evident.

I also thought possibly of Scottish or minor English provincial, but it doesn't really push in that direction very strongly. It does feel to me overall like American (US), and for all the above-mentioned reasons I agree with swarter and wev as to it likely being a 'rustic' product rather than from a manufacturing center. And I'd guess probably something like 1790-1810, but with the possibility of being earlier with the bowl reshaped.

I really like the folksy swage, and the rather individualistic mark as well. I hope someone recognizes it!

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argentum1

Posts: 602
Registered: Apr 2004

iconnumber posted 06-29-2007 05:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for argentum1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Conforming cartouch and lettering are not all that crude but the drop is crudely done. There are a number of silversmiths with the last name Lewis but I know of none with the first initial G. Then there are a whole lot of silversmiths I have never heard of. Good luck with your search and let us know what you find.

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Silver Lyon

Posts: 363
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 07-01-2007 06:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Silver Lyon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your ideas so far.
I don't have any problem with c.1800 - only the swaged decoration looks older.
There are two of these, and the unusually deep bowls are certainly in their original shape - they are not as pointy as they look in the photiograph.
If I get a chance, I will post a detail of one of the bowls.

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Silver Lyon

Posts: 363
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 07-01-2007 12:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Silver Lyon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Here is the bowl in all its glory!


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FWG

Posts: 845
Registered: Aug 2005

iconnumber posted 07-01-2007 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FWG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does the use of this sort of conforming cartouche cluster in a particular region? I haven't handled enough of them to develop a sense.

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 07-01-2007 07:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Silver Lyon!
This question may seem irrelevant but you said the spoon appeared on your desk.........can you elaborate? How so, by whom etc.? I think the why may be obvious. There may be a clue there. Thank you. Trying to be of help.
Enjoy the day!
Jersey

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Silver Lyon

Posts: 363
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 07-02-2007 08:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Silver Lyon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mundane response to a clever question!
People often send me pieces that they have failed to identify elsewhere - sometimes in the hope of selling them (I buy them if I can) and sometime just in the hope of gaining information.
I regard all exchange of information as positive as you never know where it is going to lead, and sometimes a vital piecce of some research 'jigsaw' is discovered in this manner- I will tell one such story later this year, when I am able to finish the research and publish it!
The good thing about the forums is that there is such a strong cross-=section of knowledge and skills... Very good for puzzle (like this) solving.
smile
When I am dead, someone will inherit a box of unascribed British or French colonial silver... too heavy to lift!!

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 07-02-2007 08:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello again Silver Lyon.
Another thought. Could the name be Glewis, not G. Lewis?
Leave the silver to someone you love!
Jersey

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