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Another auction item

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Author	Topic: Another auction item
argentum1 Posts: 602 Registered: Apr 2004	posted 02-16-2008 02:36 PM The sale for a ? sugar urn of ? age and ? silversmith has just ended. I have gotten very skeptical about most early silver appearing on that west coast auction site. So, here I go again. Is it or isn't it a true description of what was offered. My doubts are based upon the pinapple finial and the two milled bands. The pinapple finial has leaves coming out the top and the banding is beaded and not gadrooned. I defer to those more knowledgable than I. IP: Logged
Dale Posts: 2132 Registered: Nov 2002	posted 02-16-2008 05:37 PM Could you post pictures? That would be a big help. IP: Logged
argentum1 Posts: 602 Registered: Apr 2004	posted 02-16-2008 07:25 PM I can not post images as they are the property of the person posting the auction and I can not get hold of that person. IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 02-16-2008 08:40 PM Hi argentum1! I have at times been called clairvoyant but have recently misplaced my crystal ball, (just having fun). Can you describe it in more detail, or be anymore specific as to style, anything? P.S. I thought once it had ended you could give us the site info etc. I could be wrong. Enjoy the day! Jersey IP: Logged
rian Posts: 169 Registered: Jan 2006	posted 02-16-2008 09:49 PM perhaps? quote: Coin Silver Sugar Bowl Tea Caddy J Tanner Rhode Island 150215129476[/URL] Description Item Specifics - Silver Composition: Coin Silver Product: Sugar Bowl, Tong Maker: John Tanner Age: Pre-1800 This auction is for a wonderful American coin silver sugar bowl or tea caddy with pineapple with five leaves finial. The lid fits very tight and only fits one way and the size makes me feel this could be a tea caddy although the shape is of a sugar bowl but it seems a bit small for a sugar. It is marked three times on underside with an IT or JT in cartouche and appears to be the same cartouch mark illustrated in Belden's book for John Tanner (b.1713-d.1785) of Newport, Rhode Island. Because of trhe pineapple finial, my first inclination is that it might be by John Tanguy of Philadelphia, but I could find no illustrations of any IT or JT mark for Tanguy. I do not have the photographic capabilities to get a clearer illustration of the marks than I have included in this listing. It has a beaded rim and base. It is monogrammed with three initials in a flowing, floral script - the last initial being M but I am not sure of the first two. There is a small dent on one side (could be easily straightened) and the base has a slight bend which makes it rock slightly and the bowl bends a little to one side at the pedestal. Height 6 1/2". Any opinions as to origin other than I have listed would be appreciated. IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 02-16-2008 10:24 PM The covered sugar bowl identified by rian fits the description. A very astute correspondent (not me - I haven't been following ebay lately - I wonder who - please note it is against Forum policy to cite the Forums on ebay posts) has correctly matched the mark with the ones identified as Joseph Toy in this earlier thread: Cream jug The bowl is absolutely correct for the period (finials of course can be replaced, if there should there be any doubt about that). IP: Logged
argentum1 Posts: 602 Registered: Apr 2004	posted 02-16-2008 11:50 PM rian has the correct auction number. IP: Logged
rian Posts: 169 Registered: Jan 2006	posted 02-17-2008 08:32 AM I found it by typing sugar into the title space in the coin silver category and looking at completed listings. IP: Logged
Dale Posts: 2132 Registered: Nov 2002	posted 02-17-2008 03:42 PM Actually, in the case of advertisements, the pictures are not the property of the advertiser. If you wish to spread an advertisement around, there is no propriatary issue. It is in the same class as press releases. IP: Logged
jersey Posts: 1203 Registered: Feb 2005	posted 02-17-2008 04:56 PM Hi Swater! Re the info posted on the auction with a link to the Forum. Anyone who googles and/or searches for info re silver can come up with our Forum responses. Even our user names can come up. So anyone could have posted that link, not even remotley connected to the Forum. Jersey IP: Logged
Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 Registered: May 99	posted 02-18-2008 02:41 PM I'm a little puzzled by the thread--but assuming there's no chicanery, this is just what I'd expect of an American sugar bowl from the 1780s--clinging to the rococo form while adding neoclassical details. The beading is not (from what I can see) a milled band of beads, but an older version, one the way Cary Dunn did it in the 1780s, by punching little round bosses from the back, to give the effect of beading--and hence it could be "misconscrewed" as gadrooning. Finial looks fancy but OK--the federal pineapple showing up to modernize a somewhat outdated form. IP: Logged
argentum1 Posts: 602 Registered: Apr 2004	posted 02-18-2008 11:12 PM When the area of beads is enlarged then enhanced and with a slight tweaking of the lighting the area appears to be a milled band. I considered the early technique of punch decoration but after doing the above it seems to be a band versus punch work. The only way to be certain is to actually do a hands on inspection of the item. IP: Logged

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