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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 American Silver before sterling
 Beware
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 03-10-2008 03:30 PM
  
With a lot of trepidation I bought these on the infamous west coast auction site. The description of condition seemed to indicate a minor crack in the bow. Take a look for yourself and tread lightly on that site. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 03-10-2008 04:33 PM
My own experience on that site are not too much unlike yours. That does look like a sound repair, but you should have known all about it up front. It seems to be the exception when there isn't a problem with purchases made on their site. IP: Logged |
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rian Posts: 169 |
posted 03-10-2008 04:45 PM
Argentum, I hate to seem so thick, but what exactly am I looking at here? Is it a break at the arc that has been mended? If so, is it an early mend, hammered to allow the tongs to still be used for their intended purpose or a cosmetic mend to better preserve the decoration. IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 03-10-2008 05:27 PM
rian, The repairs are old and allow for the continued use of the tongs. photo #4 shows a lap joint repair using solder and silver positioning pins. Photo #5 shows those repairs from the inside of the tongs. The last photo shows the lap repair joint. And yes there is a repaired crack on the bend of the bow. The bow bend crack was noted in the auction description but not the lap repair joint which is a serious problem which should have been included in the description. As an indication of where on the tongs the lap joint repair is look at the central round part with the four leaf (star) which is in the center of the tongs. [This message has been edited by argentum1 (edited 03-10-2008).] IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 03-10-2008 06:27 PM
These tongs were originally made in three pieces - the cast arms were soldered to the spring bow. These joints are weak points, and a repair at thhat point would not particularly bother me, except that the price should reflect it. Castings are fragile, however, and the break in the cast arm is more serious; the break in the bow is another matter, but you knew about that - it is possible that the seller did not recognize the other repair as such, although it seems obvious - some handle so much stuff they don't examine everything closely enough, but that is no excuse. Be that as it may, American tongs of this style and period are not so common that a repaired example should be rejected out of hand, especially one decorated as nicely as this one. John Deverell (1764-1813) was a Boston silversmith who first advertised in 1785. I have never seen an example of his work before. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 03-10-2008).] IP: Logged |
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rian Posts: 169 |
posted 03-11-2008 08:34 AM
Thank you both for helping me to understand. I had read that early silver tongs were made in parts joined together but I really didn't know how that was accomplished. I'm sorry for your disappointment Argentum, but it is still a wonderful piece, of course, and I am grateful for the chance to see the repair. IP: Logged |
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Brent Posts: 1507 |
posted 03-11-2008 02:44 PM
I agree with Swarter; rare form in american silver, rare mark, quite attractive, well worth having if the the price reflects the condition. Tongs are certainly damage prone, and also something that requires close inspection before purchase. As noted, an inexperienced seller might not know what to look for. I would be hesitant to buy any online, but if the source knows enough about tongs to accurately describe the condition, I would not be afraid to make a purchase. Brent IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 03-11-2008 09:53 PM
The pins are reminiscent of the staples that were used to repair ceramics and glassware in the 1800s. These make-dos, in my opinion, are wonderful objects to collect in their own right as they speak to another time when the term “throw away and replace” simply did not exist. You have a great example of the care and thought that the owner had for one of their prized possessions. Restored items abound in the ceramics field today where the restorations can not be seen with the naked eye, but what a treasure to see an object that has been brought back to its use functionally with the use of staples. I suspect that in the ceramics and glassware field the art of repair using the staple method is now lost. Enjoy your wonderful tongs. IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 03-11-2008 09:58 PM
I have a ceramic coffee pot ca. 1810 with a lid repaired in that manner. A friend asked why I did not 'get it fixed'. I told him that it was 'fixed right' for that time period. Looks good to me. IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 03-16-2008 08:06 PM
Brent, May I impose upon you to ask a question. I do not think my question is appropriate for SMP inclusion so I would include my email address [snip .... SM] Please don't do an end run around the Guidelines. If the question is not appropriate then it shouldn't be asked. Then just delete it. [This message has been edited by argentum1 (edited 03-19-2008).] IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 03-26-2008 12:07 PM
Scott I do not quite understand your last comment at the end of this posting. What is the difference between asking someone a question that will not appear on the forum versus others discussing something of a commercial nature in a conference room . I apologize if I am being a bit dense on this. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 03-26-2008 12:36 PM
The public Silver Salon Forums are for non-business discussion. If you want to do business (there are few other members who do; most don't), there are ways to get that accomplished. But the public forums is not the place to instigate it. One way is to contact us via email or telephone and hire a private Silver Caucus Room to discuss something that isn’t appropriate in the public forums. IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 03-26-2008 04:06 PM
If the question is inappropriate then please delete it. Brent what portion of your sales are sterling versus coin? I am just curious and have no commercial motive whatsoever. The reason I ask is that few dealers in the midwest offer early american silver whereas a large number of east/west coast dealers do both sterling and coin. Is it due to low interest or there just isn't as much coin silver or nearly as old. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 03-26-2008 04:51 PM
If you continued to worry about the appropriateness of the question you could have emailed me and asked instead of posting it. BTAIM... Generally the question is fine. Geographic customer demand is an interesting question. If the question were asked of me I'd find myself restating it. My view is that a dealer's business differs first based on other things before taking in geographic regions. For example, where a dealer's personal interests start, what their inventory (picker) sources provide, store front or other, customer traffic and customer economics, etc, etc. Walk into almost any multi-dealer shop in NYC and you will see two successful silver dealers. But one sells one type/class of silver and the other has a very different inventory . Asking this question as part of a larger confidential survey of many dealers from many parts of the world could present us with interesting data to consider. IP: Logged |
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Brent Posts: 1507 |
posted 03-26-2008 06:25 PM
A good question, but it probably rates its own thread. I will start one this evening. Brent IP: Logged |
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