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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 American Silver before sterling
 Does it exist or Does it not exist
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| Author | Topic: Does it exist or Does it not exist |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 08-17-2009 07:03 AM
  
For quite sometime I have seen Sugar Bowls being listed on that big auction site as Sugar Bowls but having no lid. When queried the seller states "it never had a lid". Hence my question, do sugar bowls always have a lid or do they sometimes not have a lid? I do not recall ever seeing one without a lid or the owner/seller says "lids get lost". IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 08-17-2009 08:32 AM
As sugar was a valuable commodity I'm guessing earlier sugar bowls did not always have lids as the sugar would have only been brought out for immediate usage then locked back up. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 08-17-2009 08:39 AM
Is it possible they are selling the waste bowl as a sugar? IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 08-17-2009 10:09 AM
That was my thought too. I was wondering what happened to all the waste bowls, and then I thought maybe they were being sold as sugar bowls. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-17-2009 10:52 AM
From my limited observations as vathek suggests, sugar bowls did not always have lids. Looking at eighteenth and in to the nineteenth century examples of tea services, waste bowls are often absent and lidless sugar bowls were the norm. Even when waste bowls are part of the set, the sugar bowls are still lidless. Waste bowls were larger than sugar bowls and generally without handles. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 08-17-2009 11:26 AM
Interesting. Perhaps not too relevant to America, but in England sugar bowls were lidded in the early 18th century but by the end of that century bowls without lids had appeared and these became the more usual form by the early 19th century if not earlier, remaining so today. In my grandparents’ day folk used to crochet little covers for the lidless sugar bowls and milk jugs with dangling beads to weigh them down. These covers have been out of fashion for all my adult life, presumably because we have flies under better control. IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 08-17-2009 12:07 PM
In my experience, American Neoclassical and Empire style sugar bowls through at least the middle of the Nineteenth Century customarily are lidded. You do not usually see lidless sugar bowls (as "open sugars") in Museum catalogs - especially in tea sets - from this period. Whenever I see one so advertised (like the one c.1820 currently/recently on ebay) I assume the lid has been lost or damaged and discarded. I suppose the lids were necessary to keep the flies and other vermin off the sugar. Earlier sugar bowls often lacked handles, but those from the above mentioned period usually have two handles; waste bowls or slop bowls, which were only made after complete sets became popular), are larger and lack the handles, so there should be no confusion there. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 08-17-2009 09:51 PM
To answer the question does it exist or does it not exist? The answer is yes. Sugar bowls that never had lids do exist. Their prevalance was best answered by Swarter. IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 08-18-2009 09:01 AM
Another thought is that people would purchase their silver based on what they could afford and possibly leaving off the lid to the sugar bowl made it a bit more affordable? IP: Logged |
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argentum1 Posts: 602 |
posted 08-18-2009 01:00 PM
Thanks everyone for your responses. I may be an old cantankerous geezer who is set in my ways but for me, When I look at an 18th or early nineteenth century sugar bowl, No Lid No Sale unless it is otherwise highly desirable. IP: Logged |
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